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Technique Critique
#21

@Johannes
Thanks, apologies for reposting but I wanted a 2nd opinion before beginning to practice again.

I’m not sure if it’s the quality of the video, the angle of the camera or I’m not sure what to look for, but when I look at my picking hand, while picking a single string (right now) it looks like the motion moves in what looks like an upstroke escape (at the bottom of the downstroke the pick lands on, or comes near the G string, if I’m picking the D) and the top of the upstroke is above, or close to the top of the A string, when picking the D string.

I’ve always been able to pick very fast from the arm, and it’s gotten a bit more relaxed over the years, but I’m still not able to control anything other than tremolo picking from the arm, even controlling the speed is a challenging, let alone crossing strings and fretting. I’ve always considered whether I should switch to arm picking, but everything I’ve seen and heard over the years has convinced me to stick with the wrist.

I’ll upload another video later, I seem to be pretty crap at being able to figure this stuff out. I’d appreciate if someone can help me figure out the mechanics I’m using (mistakes I’m making) then I can decide how to go about switching to a different technique.

@tommo
I do focus quite a bit on theory on composition, I practice piano too, and I’m happy with the progress I’m making there. The only obstacle is that there are certain songs I’ve wanted to play on guitar for years, but just can’t. I still compose and play easier stuff.

My medium term goal is to be able to play Wonderful Slippery Thing, by Guthrie Govan
I’ve gotten the picking run at 0.25sec at about 90% speed.

My ultimate goal is to be able to play at this guy’s speed. Check the alternate picking run at the end. It’s picked at sextuplets 6nps 160bpm.

#22

I think it would definitely be interesting to see your “arm picking” as well, there may be some good applications there that you are not fully exploiting :slight_smile:

To me this sounds like (approximately) 5 notes per beat at 160bpm, even though the notes are arranged as groups of 6.

6 notes per beat at 160bpm are equivalent to 16th notes at 240bpm, it’s very rare to see players that can pull that off cleanly, and even then it’s typically limited to very specific patterns.

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#23

@tommo

Been busy with postgrad work so this is the first time I’ve practiced this week and only had 15min to warmup, the pickings a bit sloppy, but hopefully we can figure out what’s going on. First part is my usual picking technique and the second is from the arm, which I never use.

#24

Hey jdarez786,

Your picking technique that features arm usage (from 0:45 onward) is so much more efficient and faster than your “normal” technique that it’s crazy. Just use that.

The other (much slower) way is like you are string hopping at slow speeds then brute force rotating your wrist and forearm inwards (like using a doorknob to open a door) instead of using radial deviation.

Don’t worry about trying to perfect your inefficient method. Use what already works!

You are killing it with your technique that includes arm motion; continue using that. Congrats!

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#25

Then I think you should try to find a fast single escape motion! And by the looks of your video you already have one!

The Govan lick is two notes per string, probably downstroke escape, arranged so every new string starts on an upstroke.

The Kurinkinton Fox lick is, like @tommo suggested, 3 notes per string but his hands are not really synchronized. (His left hand is moving faster than his right, I think.) Anyway, look at his arm when he goes fast. Elbow motion! This is playable with the motion you already have (the arm – elbow – motion), starting on a downstroke and swiping back to the starting position after the sixth note.

I would also like to say that the scale fragment you’re playing in your example videos is a very difficult thing to play well indeed! It requires some sort of mixed escape motions, if you want to pick every note. Try to find some single escape licks to start with, just to get a feel for what it’s like to play fast.

#26

Thanks for the input

The biggest issue, when using my elbow, is of course synchronization with my left hand, the metronome and crossing strings. I’ll probably be spending some time trying to synchronize my fretting and elbow picking on one strong before trying to cross strings.
The elbow picking is almost more challenging to practice at slower speeds (under 150bpm)

I’ve never actually considered switching using different picking techniques for different patterns, I just used a one-size-fits-all approach, I believe I got that scale pattern from an old Paul Gilbert instructional video and he prefers starting on upstrokes, which I do not.

So here’s the plan:

Phase 1
Practice tremolo bursts on one string to get more control with elbow picking (With and without metronome)
Practice single string licks to get some synchronization (With and without metronome)
Practice USX and DSX on a single string with elbow picking (honestly, this feels awkward and unnecessary, but hopefully it’ll work out later)

Phase 2
Figure out the most economical picking technique for each lick, play and build to speed

#27

Skip the metronome for now! You want to focus on getting a feel for speed and synchronization. Use it periodically to check your progress if you want.

I think most elbow players tend to use more of a deviational wrist motion at lower speeds, which then transitions into elbow motion as the tempo increases. But in your case, why not start with speeds where the elbow motion is working?

Yes, that makes sense since he is a DSX player and this sets him up to swipe his way back to the lower string before starting over.

Your plan seems good. You want to get some fast licks under your belt as soon as possible I’m sure! One thing though – it is generally considered that elbow motion is a DSX motion only, so I don’t think you’ll be playing any USX or double escape licks with that!

#28

I did realize this after practicing a few times, keeping in time is tricky when I’m trying to synch my hands with this new technique, it’s easier to work on fewer variables at once. So, as you said, I too arrived at the decision to use the metronome only once a week or so just to gauge my progress.

I still plan on using the metronome for open string ‘bursts’ (cycling between 8th and 16ths each measure). It’s really easy to elbow pick at speed (at least on one string), with elbow picking, but it’s still a bit of a challenge to control the ‘switch’. The bursts are hopefully going to help with control and relaxation.

I did notice that, it seems I’m using my old technique for slow speeds, a combo of wrist deviation and my old technique for medium speeds and about an 80/20 ratio of elbow and wrist for high speed.

The issue when trying to synch my LH fingering (doing 4 note chromatics and 3 notes on one string) with elbow picking at high speeds is that… the LH obviously can’t keep up with the RH at high speeds and struggling to synch creates tension.

Yesterday, I discovered, that by starting the elbow picking at a manageable speed (no metronome and where my LH could keep up doing a 4 note chromatic pattern on one string), I could gradually increase my speed to the point that I could feel myself going out of synch and getting sloppy. Then I’d close my eyes, try to relax, focus on getting in synch and push a bit faster. It seems to work, I get brief moments of synch at high speed, then I start over.

I actually find that both DSX and USX feel comfortable, assuming I’m understanding these correctly (DSX, when the pick is in the air on the upstroke and opposite for USX). However, I find the DSX more comfortable when I’m picking on the higher strings (e and B) and the the USX feels more comfortable on the lower strings (E and A). Given, I haven’t really picked across multiple strings using elbow picking yet, so I can’t say which feels best overall.

Either way, if I settle on one technique (USX or DSX), is it then just a matter of transposing fast passages to work with whichever technique I use?

On a side note, I’ve found switching to a different pick helped. Years ago, I used a Jazz 3. The past few years, I’ve been using the Dunlop big stubby and now going back to the flatter Jazz 3 and Petrucci Jazz 3 seems to work best for elbow picking.

Your input is very helpful, thanks.

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