Andy Wood lower string change mechanic

Playing Technique
#3

I don’t have an answer either (regarding Andy’s palm muting capabilities on the low strings from this posture), but I thought it might be helpful to see how Paul does this stuff:

Also, Anton’s approach

Hand size might come into play too, since we have to remember PG has huge hands compared to small to normal sized people. I definitely don’t see the drastic shift like I’m seeing in Andy’s approach, so from the surface it seems like that’s a less desirable way to play on the low strings. Some sort of tracking or anchor/reference-point strategy that allows us to keep all the same angles makes sense to me.

#4

I think I might be mixing up two different issues in my own playing too - I have an issue with pick angle, and I need to really drive home a pick angle that’s correct across all the strings in the sense that it won’t get stuck but still gives a nice staccato sound with dynamics, and so there’s enough to feel it pushing through the string. If I really work on that I think the problem I’m having (playing runs that end on a low string) mostly drops away.

When I pronate on those low strings - if my pick wasn’t angled enough or was getting caught a bit on the higher strings, it’s softening the angle as well as positioning my wrist to have a better position to attack the string a bit harder (range of motion upwards being more limited with wrist deviation).

#5

Yep. I’ve been focused on Andy Wood style crosspicking at high tempos for some time, and studying Anton more recently. Got it working first on DGB strings. Brought in the high e next.

Lately I’m bringing in the low A which is inconsistent, and low E doesn’t happen. I’m trying to adjust anchor points and angle so that the sweep of the wrist includes the low e, but everything changes because my wrist contact point falls off the bridge.
Have to recheck the shoulder muscles constantly because i noticed that my shoulder will relax at highest speeds, and then my arm will drift down and suddenly those low strings can no longer be reached by my wrist.

The MAJOR issue is that my left hand technique wasn’t prepared for all of this new found speed. Holding down a chord and arpeggiatting ringing notes is one thing, playing licks or lines requiring individual notes is another. A few days of ripping out crosspicked gilberts and… I’m actually on a break from guitar because i feel the early WARNING signs of tendonitis in my left hand. 25 years of playing guitar and I’ve never had a serious issue, this is probably the closest I’ve come to an injury.

#6

Good for you! Being smart will like this will keep you going for years on end. I think you were in another thread where I linked some videos Tom did on fretting hand stuff. Definitely check those out if you haven’t. Based on how experienced you sound and given your report of no discomfort over such a long period, I highly suspect you’re just trying to force something your body won’t do. Good news is you have plenty of good options (i.e. fretting postures) that are sure to work out well for you.

Keep up the good work, and best of luck to you!

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#7

Yes, those videos from Tom are excellent and i watched them for a second time when you linked them.

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#8

I almost forgot about this one:

It has this video in it:

What I like about that one is it gives specific examples of some wrong ways of fretting that can make stuff start to hurt.

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#9

It’s too fast for me to tell, but is it likely that this happens after the upstroke string changes? Meaning his single escape dsx motion would likely need a helper motion, like a turning of the forearm, to clear the string. Unlike his more moderate speed dbx motion, which has less, if any flip flopping.

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#10

I see what you mean. Not necessarily a tracking thing, but more of a consequence of required escape. I am not sure either as I just watched at normal speed

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#11

I’m fairly certain that in his single escape playing in the interviews here, this change in form doesn’t happen. I’d have to look again, but I’m nearly certain it wasn’t happening. But, if it were an upstroke string change, he’d need to do something to get those upstrokes to escape. So that’s what I suspect anyway.

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#12

So this is what happens when I try to apply it - and it’s a good result, took a minute for me not to tense up when switching form and I probably need to take a break now because I have some residual forearm pain from before I was able to stop tensing up, but once I was able to get the angle such that it’s not creating too much tension from a hard pick stroke, it definitely works. It may well be a helper motion and it makes sense, it’s two different versions of DSX escape. I felt like after working on it consciously i was also able to hit that form on the last descending run better too and it is smoother than previous attempts on the low A and E strings.

That UWPS form is something I’ve used a lot in the past though so it could just be me, I think I’m able to get that Anton Oparin style pinky side of the palm mute/unmute going with it too, not as dramatic a mute as it would be if I stay supinated the whole time but that’s not necessary, and there may still be a way around that with some practice anyway.

EDIT: For more info/context, this is on a set of Ernie Ball power slinky’s so it may work even better with a set of 9’s.

4 Likes
#13

Sounded great. What exactly did you apply for this video? Sorry getting confused reading this whole thread lmao

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#14

If you watch the Andy Wood clip in the OP, he changes up his picking form when he hits the low E string by rotating his forarm from supinated to pronated.

So it’s when I hit the lower string picking runs, if you look close, I pronate my forearm and it seems to be smoother than when I try to maintain the same amount of forearm rotation.

Part of it is I’m anchoring my palm on the ulnar side around the E and A strings, and it’s a bit tricky to get enough range of motion on the low strings like that, so rotating my palm onto the body of the guitar gives me a bit better range of motion.

Andy Wood complains about range of motion this issue in his interview, so when I noticed he was switching his form up on the low E in that video I figured that was how he gets around the issue. It seems to work pretty well.

EDIT: the base motion is either 902 or DSX, I can’t quite tell at that speed and I’m pretty good at muting adjacent strings with the left hand, there’s probably some amount of swiping in the descending run

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#15

Oh yeah ive been doing this too with trying to get down a DSX form. I plan to make some videos soon. Its a good transition to go from the body of the guitar right next to the low E and then back over the strings/bridge

Im pretty sure ive seen some PG and AO vids where they do the same thing but maybe it just randomly happened for a few reps

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#16

Andy’s arm and hand position is a bit different than that of PG, and from what I can tell he isn’t really muting in the same sense that PG does. Pg does it for a staccato tonal effect, Andy is just trying to keep strings quiet. That said, because his arm isn’t at as steep of an angle across the guitar as PG’s, is resting in a different neutral position, and because he has it locked in a position that kind of serves as a fulcrum for his wrist, it makes sense he would need that little bit of extra rotation to get over the lower strings as he’s not moving his whole forearm to change position, but that said he does have the same rocking movement over everything it’s just more pronounced when he gets to the last two strings. The camera angles exacerbate the appearance as well.

Andy doesn’t appear to use much edge picking either, which is another factor. It almost guarantees he’s going to have to use a little extra movement to cleanly cross the strings. With steep edge picking like Paul uses, you can more easily skate over strings unnoticed even if you don’t always clear them.

#17

The last run was good, the riff parts you are over correcting - almost over shooting when switching strings so that it is almost an economy picked motion. Part of it may be how ridged you are holding that pick for that part. If you notice both Paul and Andy, their grips are a bit more lax, and you can see the pick move in their grips slightly almost resembling thumb movement. I think this also goes back to what you referenced earlier about your degree of edge picking. Ridged pick grips with that high degree of edge picking have a tendency to over shoot like that. They are so good at slicing through strings, they are almost too good at it.

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#18

Yeah I’ve had this long standing thing/issue from probably highschool age where I have a tendency to economy pick changes without noticing it, almost like a fractional rest stroke moving to a second downstroke sometimes as well so soundwise it’s hard for me to distinguish, but is also very inconsistent. I’ve been making my pick grip more rigid imitating Anton’s suggestion for pick grip but maybe I need to incorporate both ways depending on the line. It works great for the higher strings but the lower strings require some kind of different approach for consistency.

Another thing I’m trying to incorporate here is getting the habit of bending my thumb to get the pick angle a bit more severe whenever that string tension feels to high on the low strings, maybe if I can internalize that enough it’ll smooth things out as well. I see in many of Paul’s video’s he does that, and he talks about it pretty overtly.

Another option, instead of going pronated, I can also go more supinated to extend my range of motion, I’ve experimented with that too, still seems to lack as much power as getting above the strings the way rolling over the bridge with my palm does, but it does seem like it could work. I’m pretty sure Anton is doing that. PG however I think has hands that are so damn big and a relatively flat bridge due to not using any trem system most of the time, that it looks like he just rests his anchorpoint on the body rather than the bridge the whole time so it’s not really a problem.

#19

You can also just start on an upstroke for the lower strings. Even with a more neutral wrist i still find it easier to start three note runs with upstrokes. It just puts your hand in a much better position.

#20

Same caveat applies as with anything. What people say, and what they actually do, may be two different things. I would be willing to bet Anton has a bit more give in his grip than you think, and you can see it. I would also caution against taking things at absolute face value. The point he was trying to make in one of the shorts you posted a while back was that he is holding it on bonier parts of his fingers, so that he doesn’t have to hold on to it any tighter than he has to in order to keep his hand lax. I would be willing to bet you are holding it a bit more rigidly than he is.

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#21

how important do you think it is to have a straight or straighter thumb? in relation to AO’s pick holding video

maybe @guitarenthusiast can chime in on straight vs bent thumb from AO’s perspective?

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#22

Again, if your talking about the get out of my yard instructional, what he shows and what he does at high speeds are two different things. He doesn’t have nearly as steep of an angle as he shows in practice. Especially during that era when he used standard round Dunlop .60’s. If he did, you wouldn’t hear a distinct picked note, it would just sound like a scratch.