He’s got recorded original songs on his Youtube channel.
For somebody who isn’t a guitarist, Mike Varney might very well be the single most influential person in the proliferation of technical guitar playing and in raising the average technical facility among guitarists through the generations.
The list of players that were discovered, promoted, developed and/or produced by Varney is remarkable.
If all Anton played were his classical transcriptions instead of his original compositions, I’m quite sure that Varney would still have signed him.
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And you won’t likely if you are using certain parameters to base this on. Some of this is contextual - You have to consider that stylistically and compositionally this is representing a very specific era and trend in music, which simply has changed over the course of 35yrs.
But I guess if that’s the metric, there’s always Archie and Johnny (the ending sounds scarified influenced):
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Great list, these guys are brilliant, I had only heard of Gottardo before.
These guys are a lot of fun to watch.
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Cool thread. My opinion on the topic is this; the next generation of player will always be more technically proficient and have access to better technology to present their playing. Does that equate to “better” music? Not so sure… but I must say there’s lots of awesome music out there, both old and new!
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Somehow I missed this comment. And right, voice leading, IMO is one of the marks of an elite composer and Allan was great at it. In more of a ‘macro’ sense, it’s even the basis of Schenkerian Theory.
Speaking of his chord progressions (in general, not just in his clean chordal playing but what he solo’d over)…
There’s this perception of Holldsworth being a very ‘outside’ player. As in, say we’re soloing over a C major chord, we use many notes ‘outside’ that key in our lines. I wish I could remember the exact track, but there was something on I.O.U. that years ago I sat down and transcribed one of the solos. It was thin orchestration, just the bass player supplying the ‘harmony’ while Allan was soloing. I was amazed that I wasn’t hearing any outside notes at all. He was only playing notes that belonged to each chord, major or minor, that the bassist was implying. Now, the chord progression itself was of course completely bonkers and borderline atonal. It reminded me a lot of Coltrane’s Giant steps, where there almost no chromaticism, just constant modulation.
You’re much more well versed in his music than I am @Tom_Gilroy. Is what I’m describing typical of his work, where it’s very much ‘in’, just over extremely complex chord progressions?
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Yes, this is very typical.
Each individual chord may imply one or more pitch collections (key signatures), and Allan would usually play in one of the implied collections over an individual chord.
Sometimes he would play out by anticipating or delaying the resolution to the next pitch collection, or connect pitch collections using chromaticism, symmetric shapes or some characteristic movements on the fretboard. However, it’s much more in than out, with most of the outside playing occurring over a looser harmony or over chords which themselves are unusually tense.
As for how the chord progressions were constructed, I don’t think anybody really knows.
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Interesting. If not for that final word “fretboard” and I read that sentence on its own I’d think we were talking about Chopin 
Another master of voice leading. Funny how there are these common threads amongst musical geniuses.
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A fascinating thread!!!
Let’s look at instruments with mature technique like piano, violin, harp, classical guitar, etc. Are the modern players better? I’d say, “no.” Are modern singers better? No (arguably worse if one looks at Autotune).
So what is special about electric guitar? There are two things: (a) a strange obsession with improvisation [because artists usually lack the foundations or interests to memorize other people’s great works, etc.], and (b) the technique is probably only recently mature. But the 1980’s greats pretty much had all of the technique, it’s just that many more people will be able to play with “correct” technique, hence some amazing players might just happen to pop up…
As I’ve said before, I suspect that electric guitar technique is finally mature, AND IT IS ABOUT TIME!!!
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As far as pure physical ability, he played Get Out of My Yard without a capo when he was 13 and it’s pretty ridiculous
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I can’t help but wonder if to some degree, this maturation establishes a dogmatic view of technique. Perhaps some tremendous innovations in technique relating to some of those instruments are possible.
Specifically, I’ve been told by classical players that much of what is taught as “correct” is based on Segovia, his methods and his teaching. To contradict Segovia and the doctrine of classical guitar technique would be akin to heresy.
However, Segovia lived into the late 1980s and his supposed doctrine is less than a century old. Could the instrument have come further if other modern virtuousi had less expectation to conform to Segovia’s doctrine?
I’m not a classical player or any kind of expert on the history of classical guitar, so I might be off base here. I’m just reflecting on what I’ve heard from a few classical players I’ve had discussions with.
Edit: Any thoughts @joebegly ?
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For those who are interested in some deep analyzing of the late great Allan Holdsworth this vid realy is a must! It will give you a much better understanding of how he approached things harmonically, which often is much simpeler then you would expect.
John Vullo put a loooot of effort in this!
Me and two other guys helped out with transcribing and correcting.
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Hi @Andjoy, that really is a fantastic video. I had been considering making a thread to share it.
I also feel that Timmothy Pedone’s recent book is very worth reading.
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Honestly thinking about it more, Brandon Ellis does perfectly fit all 3 of the points OP wanted, this improv take from him sounds like Vai meets Jason Becker. He’s a perfect example of someone who’s studied 80’s guitarists, combined a ton of their techniques and sounds, and applied them to newer extreme metal contexts
EDIT: (Okay lol, maybe not innovative as Eddie Van Halen that’s a very high bar now that electric guitar playing is way more mature than when Eddie started, but points a) and c) easily )
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I have to admit I didn’t study the history of technique in depth and just did what I was told. I had no reason to not trust or question my teacher since he was a top professor at a prestigious conservatory and was a former student of Aaron Shearer.
We all kicked some ideas and findings around here:
One thing I can say is that broadly, most very well trained classical players have pretty similar techniques. So whether it is Segovia’s or even more recently Aaron Shearer’s technical methodology, what we have today is pretty standardized. But yes, it comes with some Dogma.
Variations I can note are different players prefer different nail shapes. And since tone production is such a core part of the technique, there are only so many approach angles and contact points that “work” based on the options of nail shapes. It seems more finite than what we see in electric guitar where 2 players with excellent technique like Shawn Lane and Rusty Cooley look so different (and even have drastically different implications of what they can and cannot comfortably play).
One thing I do know about Segovia’s influence that dicatates technique is the repertoire he standardized. It was so heavily reliant upon “solo” classical guitar. Again I think because the pieces most players learn are so specific even down to fingerings that just aren’t negotiable, there isn’t a lot of room for variation. If guitar is played in a duo, trio or quartet the polyphonic responsibility is suddenly dropped and then suddenly we have more options in both hands for variation of technique. The Great John Williams (Segovia’s student, not the film score composer, though he is great too) talked about this in a documentary and questioned if this did more harm than good in ways. He popularized the instrument and gave it a place in concer halls and conservatories, but at a cost.
I sort of agree. Even from a composition standpoint it is REALLY difficult to write high quality solo classical guitar music that is also playable by anyone but the most skilled players. Even plenty of the standard pieces that were written for other instruments and transcribed for guitar (Bach, Scarlatti or Albeniz etc) are unfortunately just shells of the original compositions. Voice leadings are compromised, bass lines are illogical or incomplete and some notes are just missing because there is just no way to play it on a guitar (solo guitar). Some nice pieces written by “Guitarist” composers (Tarrega for example) have plenty of the voice leading issues mentioned above. Barrios is the outlier. His compositions are high quality with excellent voice leading, interesting chromatic harmony and great musical form…but his pieces are damned difficult to play.
Sorry for the longwided answer but under that lens, I’d say even though mature and pretty standardized, classical guitar still has room for growth and improvement.
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I would be very interested in that thread, I haven’t avidly listened to Holdsworth in a while, but in late highschool I was fascinated with him, and spent a ton of time trying to get down Road Games and Three Sheets to the Wind from scans of Japanese transcriptions my guitar teacher had at the time.
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Ouch I am not near a guitar but I don’t think my ring finger would like to invert that way
Edit: lol sorry that was supposed to be in a DM to @bradejensen. My phone changed threads on me
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This has been my impression also. I don’t play classical guitar (and likely never will), I’m certainly no authority upon it. However, I do think that I have a keen eye for subtle technical details and a knowledge base on the subject of hand and finger movements which I believe must be largely transferable.
From what I’ve seen, there is a level of uniformity in technical methodology among the great classical players. That technical methodology is clearly very capable and you know I have nothing but respect for classical players.
I can’t help but think that a dogmatic view of technical methodology would limit what is considered feasible or idiomatic to the guitar.
This, is it precisely. One the electric guitar, so many different technical methodologies have been demonstrated to be tremendously capable, though what is naturally amenable to being played with these different methodologies differ drastically.
It would be interesting to see what could be accomplished with a different approach to technical methodology on the classical guitar.
I wonder if this established repertoire creates a circular logic with the established methodology. That is, the established methods are considered correct because they best fit the requirements of the repertoire, but the repertoire can only consist of things that can be played with the established methodology.
I have read that before Segovia, the classical guitar was considered a lesser or inferior instrument among the classical establishment.
In truth I’m not the greatest fan of much of the classical repertoire for precisely this reason. I simply prefer to listen to the pieces on the instruments they were composed for (or their nearest modern relatives).
As much as I appreciate the Spanish tradition and it’s importance in the history of the guitar, most of the Spanish compositions which were specifically for the guitar don’t much appeal to me. This puts me in the odd position of loving the timbre of the classical guitar, but not enjoying much of the music that is actually played on it. I do enjoy Barrios though, beautiful music.
Flamenco doesn’t much appeal to me either, though I respect the tradition immensely.
I wonder if what’s necessary is a new wave of composer guitarists who are familiar with the established methodology, but who are willing to take the instrument into new directions. As an odd thought, Michael Hedges studied classical guitar and composition at the Peabody Conservatory. He went on the revolutionize steel-string acoustic guitar playing, but what could have happened if he’d focused on pursuing his music on the classical guitar?
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so can we bring in the classical guys!
i just want to live inside this guys songs it sounds like heaven!
sounds so clean and heavenly yet so raw and pure with so much powerful passion, sheesh!
this was under the details of the video
Sarará is a composition I’ve done many years ago.
I play it almost every concert.
It represents the freedom of the frontier musicality, it also reminds me of my childhood.
The dream of having a horse!
When I was a kid, it became this theme song.
More and more my compositions try to be photographs of different cultures, in this case, the language of chamamé, music with a Guarani influence.
Long live the music that transports us simply by closing our eyes!! Blessed music!!
what an artist!
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The most impressive classical guitarist I’ve ever heard is Yamashita - specifically his take on Pictures At An Exhibition. It’s worth noting that a lot of the more traditionalist classical guitarists hated his work at the time and criticised his tone, among other things, but goddamn is what he did in that arrangement absolutely insane.