I just got my membership and I’m trying to get my head around what the most allrounder technique is. I have taken courses with Tom Hess for a few years and I learned his thumb muting technique which puts you in a DSX without even knowing it and learned directional picking. I have made some nice progress throughout the years but I was never fully able to express myself, because I didn’t understand the different concepts of holding the pick. I knew that I could play with different pickholds and they felt good but I failed to understand which one serves which purpose.
After a few years of pause I’m coming back and I’m wondering what to learn. I can play 3 nps sequences triplets up to 220 BPM, but with directional picking only. So I feel like I have to unlearn that to be able to learn propper alternate picking.
And I feel like I could learn USX as well as DSX as both feel good.
I fail also to see why one wouldn’t learn two-way pickslanting as a general rule. Am I missing something?
I also found the primary motion plus secondary motion not that well explained, mainly as how is one supposed to do the secondary motion? Is it simply a switch from moving your wrist in a reverse dart thrower motion to a more vertical wrist motion for the string crossing and then getting back to your primary motion?
It this “correct”?
You don’t have to unlearn anything. Just learn the new thing. You can continue doing the old thing or drop it if it’s not useful for anything. Knowing one thing doesn’t stop you from learning and doing something else. You’ll probably find some musical situations where directional picking is preferable to alternate picking.
Give this a read: Why don't we all learn DBX First?
Directional picking is just his term for economy picking, right? In any event, welcome to the boards! Great, astute, thoughtful, and mature group of players here, I hope you’ll enjoy the discussion.
I think that if you can switch back-and-forth between USX and DSX you’ll be able to handle almost anything… the only difficulties really emerge from isolated 1nps cases.
I think that what you might be missing is that even one of those techniques can get you really far; for example, Yngwie is USX and he doesn’t employ DSX. I also think that in practice most people tend to play a subset of possible music and they find a simpler technique is plenty to address their needs. I suppose that a lot of people are really about the music and they view technique as an obstacle to power through in order to unlock what they want to play, and in that sense if just one technique suffices, then they can go for it.
Finally, don’t throw any of your current techniques away, just start adding things to fill in actual gaps that you see.
Thanks for your answers. So there is no consensus on a real allrounder I guess 
Economy picking is not exactly directional picking. The difference is in economy picking you start your phrases in Up or Downstrokes depending on where you’re going. In directional picking you always start with a downstroke and go wherever needed. That’s how Hess explains it. But I didn’t have the attack/articulation that I always wanted. I did ok, but it didn’t click 100%.
Ok so based on your answers I’m gonna learn USX as I always was a Malmsteen fan. I’ll see where it leads me. I have no pressure as I don’t play in any band anymore, so I can explore…
Have you done the table tapping tests yet? Inasmuch as there’s a curriculum around here, it starts with the tapping tests, then a single-string tremolo motion. Then things tend to diverge according to your results and interests.
Not saying you have to follow the standard approach, but it makes it easier for the CTC crew and the forum folks to help.
It’s tough to say for sure but your picking hand probably already has a preferred escape direction, you can suss out well enough by doing tremolo testing or the tabletop test. No harm in trying to learn something else, but if it ain’t broke…
It might happen but most frequently it’s the picking motion that “chooses” you and not the other way around. Chances are you might be a natural DSX player and that’d be totally fine.
Play to your strengths and don’t limit your options arbitrarily.
YJM’s technique is brilliant; Troy traces out all of the rules, and make sure you find that, but it is basically this:
- Start free and use a downstroke.
- If it is even notes/string pick them all.
- If it is odd notes/string > 1 pick all but one (so it becomes even), and HO/PO once.
- Sweep towards higher [in pitch] notes for 1 note/string cases.
That’s about it… also consider Master Neoclassical Shred Guitar Technique, Yngwie Malmsteen style!
This is true only for descending, and generally only incorporates pull-offs, afaik. When ascending odd groupings, the downstroke string changes are swept. The technique is one-way economy.
Wow, that is only tapping a tiny fraction of what he could be doing! Are you sure? 
Perhaps we are not following each other. If Yngwie were to ascend a 3nps scale, which he does fairly often, he picks D U D on every string. Your point #3 reads to me like he’d play D U HO, something more like Josh Meader might do. Do I have you right?
Yeah, I think that you’re right, he will choose to sweep it like you said, D U D D U D… Naturally, he could also use a HO but you’re right that he doesn’t choose to do that. So my recollection of the rules was more general than what the maestro uses — further proof that having a constrained technique can still make amazing music.
You make it sound as if Yngwie were doing something wrong or unexpected. 
Single escape economy picking is everywhere, starting with virtually every single Gypsy jazz player (although they often don’t even bother to add the pull off on descending runs).
Thanks again for all your input. I have watched the videos, done the tapping tests and I can do all of them at 220-230 bpm, except the forearm motion @210. I’ll post a video tomorrow of my playing when I’ll have a friend to replace the magnet to film
But it’s already interesting to test the different motions and pick grips.
I wanted to chime in about the idea of being naturally USX or DSX, and the hand having a preferred escape direction.
I’ve been on a bit of a journey with this, and now I don’t believe that at all.
Having followed CtC and this forum for years, I had decided that DSX was for me. It felt natural, smooth, and I was reaching the speeds that I had always wanted. Every time I tried USX, it felt tense, awkward, and slow. I felt it wasn’t for me, and against my “natural slant”. If Troy had a merch section on the site, I would have considered a DSX T-shirt. I would have introduced myself to strangers at parties as a “DSX guy” (well, maybe not that far 
).
Well, I kept track of the research on this forum and turned by attention to the emerging Dart Thrower/Reverse Dart Thrower information.
Turns out my beloved DSX was using a RDT motion, and my attempts at USX were pure deviation.
I tried again with USX after putting my right hand and wrist under the microscope, and trying to maintain a relaxed DT motion. Suddenly, everything that I liked about DSX was happening for USX too. It was fast, smooth, relaxed, natural. I spent some time comparing them, and decided my USX motion was better.
So now I only use USX, with the single-escape one-way-economy Yngwie system. For my goals, it brings more benefits to the table. I did consider switching between the two as needed, but didn’t like the idea of rotating hand and wrist position especially on runs that change direction frequently.
Sure, many CTC users (including myself) can perform a plethora of different motions but the hand, as you just described in your own experience, might find an organic path of least resistance and it’s most frequently the low hanging fruit for the biggest performance boost. Once the first motion is revealed, the others seem to become easier to achieve.
A natural motion and the ability to learn different ones are not mutually exclusive. However, obsessing over a specific mechanic “because X player does it” is most frequently a waste of time. I’ve seen enough users hitting a wall with the Yngwie and Johnson USX material when they could simply start the patterns on an upstroke and play DSX, and I’ve seen improvements of 5+ notes per second in just a few minutes and after running in circles for weeks, months and even years trying to force USX.
@Lautruch echoing what @steve506 is saying, easiest way to find low hanging fruit/easy wins for picking gains is make a technique critique and put your playing under the camera for the CTC team.
Yes, but if someone believes that everyone has an individual and specific natural motion, why would they look beyond the first one that seems acceptable?
I am all for continuing to experiment, so I agree with that part.
This is something quite specific to electric guitar, I think. I started playing when I was 19, but between the ages of 7-18 I was trained in classical violin. When you play upbow on the lowest string, your wrist is pronated. When you play downbow on the highest string, your wrist is supinated. The idea that one of those two is more natural than the other would have seemed bizarre to both me and my teachers at the time.
That’s exactly the definition of “pointless” I was alluding to. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel or keep chasing the ultimate motion forever when you already have something that works…but you totally can! That’s what I keep doing because I find it entertaining. 