Community Jam - Track #1 - Profiles

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#22

I see what you mean, and my apologies. I’ve been ear training for decades now and I guess I take it for granted that as long as I know what key a song is in, I can tell what the chords immediately. I’ve worked on developing good relative pitch for countless hours. Hundreds at least, but probably thousands. I shouldn’t assume everyone has the same background and I’d be glad to help you out.

I’ll edit this post as I get more sections but the intro is basically this over and over. Again, this assumes tuned down a 1/2 step.

|------1-----0----|--------------|
|------3-----3----|---3-----5----|
|------2-----3----|---3-----5----|
|------0-----0----|---3-----5----|
|-----------------|---1-----3----|
|-----------------|--------------|
Beats: 1  2  3  4     1  2  3  4
Chords:Dm    Dm6add9  Bb    C

Next section (0:50 - 1:53 on original recording)
Same exact chords in use but Bb and C are held out a little differently (offbeat accents and stuff)

Next section (1:53 - 2:17)

Something like:

|-------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------|
|-----3-------5----3----2-2---2---2---|
|-00000---00000--000--000-0-000-000---|
|-------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------|

All ‘single’ open strings palm muted, all 2-note ‘chords’ not palm muted. That’s Dm the whole time unless you want to think of it as places where it’s Dm6 and Dm7…or some Bb and C chords over a D pedal. To me, Dm the whole riff.

Anyway, play that riff 3x, then hold a Bb for 2 measures (2: 10) then hold a C for 2 measures (2:14)

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#23

It’s something I need to work on. I can figure it out slowly, tho having the chords would help me, and others I’m sure. Thank you for doing it :grin:

#24

Ooookay. I had couple of free minutes, and I even managed to find a place to sit with my guitar )
Here’s my random playing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t2xgcyCr7e3U26jGUPBQvUhYhlq_dCPK/view?usp=sharing
that’s how it sounds when you don’t know what are you doing, just throwing random stuff from your head))

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#25

Sat with the intro trying to figure out what to get down, played the pedal part in a second take… kinda throwing out ideas.

You are definitely on the right track bro, we had very similar starts :slight_smile:

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#26

Btw I didn’t notice you had a separate topic for talking about it sorry.

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#27

That’s ok man, it’s all here now :slight_smile:

#28

I guess if I’d take it seriously, I would start from the main melody. Knowing my own habits I’d probably linger on 3rd to make it sadder and add some 5-6-5 bends. Maybe some 5-4#-4 over VI. For fast fills - pentatonic runs turning into diatonic on higher strings. Some diatonic 3nps runs to show off…
Me being predictable

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#29

I kinda like the sparseness you have going - the play, breath, play breath. The one thing that does clash a little, well to me at least is, when you hit that raised 7th degree over the b6maj and b7maj chords when you do the second pedal lick.

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#30

Wow great ears bro. I knew it was naughtiness :grinning: I liked the dark sound, flattening that note was sounding right but way to gleeful. Just trying things, you guys have great knowledge, technically I have not tried to name them notes, but I am happy to be pointed out. This thread is doing me good.

Thanks for the kind words and attention to detail.

#31

That’s funny I was like “yeah I talked about that”…then I read my post again about what scales to use and it turns out I did not mention it lol! I think I started typing up something about harmonic minor and backed out of it since I’m trying to write shorter posts! I was going to mention if you use harmonic minor to tread lightly just because we don’t get any V - i chord movement, so this tune doesn’t have the same dominant harmonies we’re used to for “Yngwie” style pieces.

But yeah I totally agree with @Fossegrim that if you’re going to use that raised 7th, probably safest to play it sparsely when Dm chord is happening, using it like a neighbor or passing tone around the root. Personal preference, of course. At the end of the day if you like the way something sounds, all the theory in the world gets tossed out the window.

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#32

I have a lot of trouble hearing what I’m playing over unlike you guys. I need to do something about it immediately.

Like fill my room with reference charts and start some serious ear training asap.

Do you guys have any recommendations? Something practical. I have some apps that I never seem to stuck with. I really don’t want to be playing in the dark anymore.

#33

I’m in the same position ear training wise. What I’ve been doing is finding very basic backing tracks and memorizing the chord progression so I can play the chords. Then with that knowledge I follow my inner voice thats kind of spontaneously creating lines and dancing around the root or chord.

The frustrating thing is I can shred and talk music with my inner voice like a pro due to decades of music listening experience, but because guitar is really quite new to me I struggle putting that onto the fretboard.

Here is a great lesson by Marty Friedman on it.

And here’s a couple basic tracks that I think are really well done and easy to follow.

I hope thats not disturbing the flow of the topic too much, but I think it’s relevant. As this is an area I’m currently focusing on. I’m over trying to improve my mechanics. I can play way better than I can currently understand if that makes sense. Ear training is something I’ve not focused on enough.

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#34

To me the most basic thing is being able to know what each scale degree of a key sounds like. You can easily test that by playing it on your guitar. For example, play a d minor chord or scale. Can you ‘hum’ what the root sounds like? You most likely can :slight_smile: Off of that root, you need to know what each of the other scale degrees sounds like. G is the fourth scale degree. After playing the root, can you hum a G? If not, just hum up the scale (D E F G) until you get to it. You need to be able to do that with each note of the key you’re in.

Once you can do that, the notes that are outside the key (i.e. a #4 or G# if you’re in d minor) should be next. But when you’re solid on what every single note of a scale/key sounds like (including the ‘outside’ notes), you can use that to identify the chords. You’ll probably hear chords as being ‘based’ on the scale degrees. So, you’re in d minor and hear a chord that sounds like it’s based on the 6th scale degree (a Bb). Then you apply the other theory rules (6th chord in a minor scale will be a “major” chord) and you know you’re hearing a Bb major.

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#35

Now ear training, I can help out with; There’s a few ways to attack this. Try these steps.

  1. Take a REALLY common chord progression (I vi iv V 1645) and play it in all 12 keys.

  2. Sing along with the “root motion” (You could just use the syllable “la”, but if you really want to be fussy, use Do La Fa Sol)

  3. Chart out every possible combination of this chord progression and play them in all 12 keys on your guitar. And yes, sing the root motion.

  4. Figure out a new song every day, but focus on a sort of “single note” version of it; Taylor Swift to Justin Bieber to Lenny Kravitz to Foreigner, whatever. And again - sing along to the root motion.

Once Do La Fa and Sol are nailed down, there’s only 3 notes left (Re, Me, Ti) in the diatonic major scale. It’s extremely powerful to have a command of that chord progression, as there are heaps and heaps of songs in every genre that use it. It won’t take long, do this for a couple of weeks, and you’ll be really surprised at how your ear “wakes up”. Good luck, I hope this helps.

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#36

And another thing that helps;

  1. Play a C - F - G - C on a keyboard or your guitar; let the left hand sit on a sustained low “C” for that last one…
  2. Randomly play a note, then try to guess what it is.
  3. This works best if you start with trying to guess these 4 notes; CFAG Do, Fa La and Sol respectively
  4. Then E (Mi) Then B (T) Then D (Re)
  5. Spend a few months on that, then start adding non diatonic notes.

It’s a guessing game. get 'em wrong, then sing the interval, ie Do-La Do-La

I hope that helps.

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#37

My answer is going to be a lot less exciting I’m afraid. I think the biggest thing and trick is to just spend just as much time listening as you do playing and just getting yourself familiar with the sounds of everything.

I mean there are some practical things you can do. @joebegly mentioned a bunch of them. Im not sure that’s really what your asking though.

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#38

I think you give yourself too little credit man :slight_smile: I don’t think you need to do anything drastic like a big course or hours of theoretical study.

Paraphrasing @Fossegrim and others, you can just listen back to your own playing a couple times and make notes (mental or even physical) of what you like and what you would play differently in hindsight.

Not everyone is going to like all the notes you play, and it’s ok. You are the one who has to like them at the end of the day :slight_smile:

1 Like
#39

@tommo I was wondering if we could split these posts into that other thread? As It’ll go off topic fast if I continue asking questions and talking about ear training.

@Scottulus Is this what you did to train your ear? I will have a go, though I always struggle when ear training gets a bit more than super simple. It ends up with me grasping at nothing in the dark. Thats why I posted those simple backing tracks as it’s easy to follow and I can visualize the chords going up n down the scale. My current ear training is largely following those simple chord progressions and building up that base. I’ve done a fair ammount of mental scale jumping in my head, like nursery rhymes in the major scale, but it never seems to build into an ability to follow chord/scale changes. And now I’m just focusing on the simple backing tracks and visualizing the movements, doing that with lots of repetition. And I feel that experience is doing more for me than the humming up a scale etc…

You guys are quite more advanced in hearing musical movements than me, so I won’t ignore the advice.

#40

Thanks for the response guys.

My main issue is my inability to name stuff (easily, I need to think about it still), my ears are ok, been listening to music all my life quite intently, all kinds of genres. Often listen to stuff I like 100x over within a week. Over the years, two decades maybe, I hit fewer bum notes even though I play via intuition. But I know I’m missing out. I should address it. I’m a software developer with mild dyslexia, the coloured syntax and the linter are my best friends, not sure how much this could affect my applied music theory.

There are a few apps I came across that are pretty good, but I never completed the courses to get the full benefit, also if I don’t stick with it and use it, the knowledge fades. There are apps for ear training, notation and fretboard memorization. I got quite far with the fretboard memorization and notation apps, I didn’t spend as much time with the interval training app, I think I should brush up on the ones I know well and put some effort into the ear training.

One other area I need to work on is instant recall of the 12 keys. I think I’ll get some big ass posters and stick them on the wall, I think it would be a good thing to memorize it any which way I can. One less thing to worry about for the next step. I don’t do those 18 min sessions I was into when learning the CTC stuff. I think time to revisit my low SPL practice sessions but this time with more awareness.

Thanks Tommo, I do suffer self doubt often. One of the perils of being “self taught” perhaps. There that up and down to these things, happy with progress today, next day I’m wondering what I was so thrilled about, dopamine gone, it’s back on the road up the next mountain or hill. Stagnation is the real misery.

This is the best advice really. Putting something down to tape, I mean not just a mindless jam, something with a consorted effort, it’s where ones tropes are put to rest, or deliberately put on the wall as a tool to be reused.

Good advice again, hold your own ground, we’re all different. Taste, there’s no accounting for it :grinning:

#41

Hey Whammy, I’ve been playing for a really long time and it all started way back before I had access to transcriptions, or the internet or any of that stuff; heck - it was a pain to even find cool music sometimes! Had to use your ears to figure stuff out. The cool thing though was that one had an opportunity to sit with an album for a while, and I spent a lot of time on David Bowie, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Rainbow before EVH hit. And after that, it got ugly… lol Yngwie broke and that changed everything hahaha So many crazy good guitar players came around after that…

I did go to music school in the early '90s, and ear training was the core of the program - if you washed out of ear training you were toast. I had always figured out a song by distilling it, diluting it down to it’s most basic elements and coming up with a single note version that really outlined the basic harmony. That eartraining course was the same one taught at Berklee, sight singing, relative pitch, singing chord types, modes/ chords, singing them in intervals, guessing/testing intervals, chord types and rhythms. Over the 4 semesters it got progressively more difficult, relative pitch with 2 and 3 notes, guessing tempos, etc. Since then it’s become a way of life, honestly. Really integrated with harmony and arranging, even reading.

lol You know what they didn’t teach there? Picking.

You got this, my man.

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