Convert from Eco Picker to Alt Picker

This doesn’t really answer my question. When you play, what percentage of time (roughly) do you -just- alternate pick? Deliberately being mindful and doing nothing but that?

I’m gonna throw out an estimate, but I would start with at least 50% of your time being alternate picking if you’re really wanting to get good at it. If you’re finding your economy to still be drastically better, I would switch to alternate picking everything, all the time.

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So this is the first thing I want you to do for me. I want you to play like you normally would - like you did in your video, but I want you to try the attached lick instead of the one you played:

How does this lick feel to you? Do you feel you fare better with this one?

I want you to stay away from the low strings for now, and I want you to stay away from a position where your first finger frets near a natural harmonic. I also don’t want you to focus on the motions you are using to cross strings. One thing I noticed in your first video, like I mentioned before, is that you look like you are over embellishing a rotational pick slant when switching strings to try and clear it, which makes me think you are thinking too much about making the motion and timing it just right, instead of letting it happen naturally. Because you are likely trying to mute at the bridge with the side of your pinky it seems, it’s also causing you to use a very coarse elbow movement.

When you try playing this lick, think about doing what you can to play it making smaller motions across the strings. Yet strong enough to get a good enough attack to make each note intelligible. Think of it like you are aiming for the Bruce Lee 1 inch punch of the guitar world.

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@Pepepicks66 I’m sorry I didn’t fully answer you. So back in mid 2020 I had a lot of time on my hands and got serious about taking lessons and really try and become a better player by becoming more technical. It might sound like I’m exaggerating (especially since I’m not really able to play all that fast) but I spend about an average of 90 minutes per day JUST practicing runs up and down scales with a metronome trying to embed pure alternate picking in my playing. The “wrong” way I was playing in this video I actually had to practice the wrong way a little to kind of get it under my fingers again.

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@Fossegrim thank you so much!! I had to do something after work today and didn’t get a chance to record any playing like I had intended to. I think you are really honed in on the mess I have going on with my picking lol

I’ll definitely get the recordings you asked for to help me out.

Thanks again guys!! :pray:t3:

Ok here’s a quick video of the mess I’m in lol
I recorded a longer one and I’ll post it but only watch if you have to. It’s really embarrassing. I can play along to songs//solos by some of the greatest guitarists. But sit me alone in front of a camera and I feel like I picked up the guitar for the first time ever.

Ok here’s a more long winded dorkier version

Feedback on your videos:

  1. The “Yngwie lick” sounded good, definitely more speed potential there. You’re using elbow motion for that, as opposed to the wrist motion you do when economy picking.
  2. When you compared the second riff played the “wrong way” vs alternate picked, you can see and hear that the wrong way is not as smooth tempo wise, and the speed is pretty much capped. The alternate picked version is noticeably smoother, and again shows speed potential.
  3. When you talk about the pressure in your upper arm and pressing into the guitar when you want to alternate pick, I would guess that’s you naturally wanting to use elbow motion. When you play the “wrong way”, it has an element of wrist and elbow, whereas the alternate picking is definitely elbow. I think you should stop fighting the feeling and definitely explore more elbow motion for now.

So to recap, moving forward for you I would recommend:

  1. Stop playing the “wrong way”.
  2. Do some trem picking on a single note focusing on using mostly / all elbow motion. I wouldn’t be surprised to see you jump in speed noticeably if you see stick to this.
  3. As elbow starts to feel more natural incorporate chunks (small segments) of the “Yngwie lick” to build up speed with. As you progress there, link different chunks together to make longer fast lines.
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Okay. So from your first reposted video, I can hear and see that you have an easier time playing and jumping between strings playing that “yngwie” style lick. Your movements are much more controlled playing it (I had a hunch this was going to be the case, which is the whole reason I chose it, and wanted to see that specific angle). Because you naturally play with a pretty apparent downward pick tilt (or downward slanting whatever the accepted terminology is these days), it makes all the sense in the world why you have the issues you mentioned, and I’m sure it’s not news to you either. I think a lot of people naturally become downward pick slanters like that because it’s a very natural way to hold your hand on the instrument, and it really comes as a byproduct of right hand muting at least that my theory.

Now that we can see how you play, we can now better help you and work with you to overcome the hurdles. That’s the good news. The not so good news is that it’s going to take some work, and some of the suggestions I or others will give you may seem uncomfortable or a little unnatural at first, but try to stick with it if you can, and you will be alternate picking paul Gilbert licks in no time.

I’ll post another lick tonight that I want you to start to work on. Again. Don’t go too crazy with it, and stick to the b and e strings for now. We are also going to work on incorporating more subtle movements.

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Thank you guys so much! I’m out and about but in the early AM hours I’ll get some time to read through the replies more carefully.

Here is lick 2. Should feel a little familiar but you are only picking 4 of the six notes so pattern for each 6 notes is Down. Hammer, Hammer, Up, Down, Up. How does this look with your picking hand, I want you to focus on making as little movement on either side of the string during the string changes.

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@Pepepicks66 is this what you’re saying? Just practice this …for how long each practice? Also the “wrong way” I was picking, I stopped doing that for roughly a year. I only “brushed up” on that method so I could post for you guys to see. I actually used to be smoother and maybe a little faster that way - but as you pointed out: that method has its limitations and I believe I hit the. The trek picking I’m doing in this video, am I using the motion you wanted me to? I was going as fast as I could without tightening up in my shoulder and bicep. Let me know …and thanks again!!

@Fossegrim ok here’s a quick video of me playing the lick you posted. I did spend about 4 minutes practicing and getting it under my fingers before recording But before I spent a lot of time with it I wanted to make sure that I’m playing it the way you wanted. Thanks again!!

It looks like you still have some wrist involvement here. You could attempt to “lock” the wrist in place with a little bit of tension (key here is a little, not enough to cause any kind of strain).

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@Norseman I think you accidentally uploaded the trem picking video twice instead of the lick.

@Fossegrim sorry about that. How does it look now?

@Norseman

Play the lick more like this, so it cycles every other time, and try for a similar camera angle:

Don’t worry about speed or timing, my timing isn’t great in the vid either, just worry more about the mechanics of it.

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@Pepepicks66 I’ll try that and post again the next chance I get.

@Fossegrim you’re going so fast that i cant make out exactly what you’re doing lol

@Norseman it’s lick # 2 as posted. The only difference is that you left off the second part of the lick in your vid before it cycles back, you just cycled the first 6 notes over and over. The first three notes of each 6 note chunk are played with a down stroke, hammer on, hammer on. The rest are strictly picked - up, down, up, regardless of string they are on.

Also the camera angle is key so I can see the string cross you do. If you noticed, when I’m playing it, it sounds relatively quick, but my picking hand isn’t flailing all over the place to make it happen, it’s barely moving or only moves as much as it needs to over the strings - that’s sort of the goal with these PG style licks, you don’t want a lot of extra movements, or exaggerated shift in slanting. Seeing these extra movements in your picking hand is going to be key for us to help sort it out. In the vid I posted, you can see a shift to DSX is there! But it’s super subtle, so much so that it may go unnoticed.

Guys im doing this 30 Day Sweep Picking Challenge thing on Facebook so thats why I’ve been MIA a few days. Im not done with this though and really appreciate the help!!