Crosspicking Workshop

I missed the last hour of the workshop, so I didn’t hear the responses to my questions, but I had a chance tonight to sit down and focus on the 902 motion and that’s been a huge help. I think you’re on to something there @Troy! I also really focused on my pick grip because I’ve been having a lot of issues with slipping. Highlighting that was really helpful as well. I noticed improvement this evening already with a variety of different picks.

Looking forward to catching the last hour once it’s up.

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Excellent. The grip is important because it’s one of the many things that we can iron out as far as variables. This particular motion is simpler if we can eliminate all the weird things that people do as a result of trial and error, and boil down the primary challenge to executing the motion itself. You may not choose to use this grip forever, or it may become simply an alternate that you can activate when you like. But if it helps you get the movement straightened out then great.

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I frequently don’t grasp things! That’s my secret.

In my defense I will say that you did not specifically elborate on the additional two notes. Mechanically, if you can do the repeating six-note variation then you can probably do any crosspicking pattern, since the six-note version contains every string change you can make.

The challenge is really about the motion. Eventually, you will get to a point where the motion does not change, no matter which pattern you play. It can take time - months, maybe. It is possible to do the movement correctly on certain patterns and not others, and at certain speeds and not others. Purely as a result of the human learning curve. When in doubt, film and compare.

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That’s true and the reason why this little roll is so powerful. Actually most (every) patterns (including 4,5 6 strings) can be considered variations or ‘nested’ forms from that basic building block (both fwd and bwd versions). That truly helps eliminating tracking problems when considering more complex patterns. Actually the tracking issue becomes a moot point when you control the fwd/bwd roll on every 4 string positions.

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Hi Troy and all other cracking the code guys,
Big Fan of your stuff and it really helped me out a ton!! Thanks so much :slight_smile:
i came up with a hybrid crosspicking pattern which helps me at least …maybe its interesting i dont know :slight_smile:

keep up the cool stuff guys

cheers from Düsseldorf Germany

Fabian

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Are you alt-picking and finger-picking simultaneously? If so… I think it’s a great technique, and I’ve been trying that myself… but it still feels awkward for me.

Thanks mate! It´s a combination of both, i can´t get it with just crosspicking in the moment (might understand it more watching more of CTC stuff) here i use : down -middle- down- middle - down - up…for me thats way more easy but i also want to be able to do proper crosspicking!!..something like this

Doing those 4 note loops is a good warmup technique. There are a few good X-picking videos here that can help you with the basic form, and this workshop video will help point you in the right direction as well.

The recorded version is now up!

https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/crosspicking-with-the-wrist/

This includes the two-hour talk with 18 answered questions. We covered a lot of ground here, and in re-watching this, we went through and pulled out 55 clip examples as well. Some of these are musical etude-style things. Others are closeups of movements like the Andy, Molly, and David clips we referenced in the talk itself.

Everything is in the timeline for point and click access. We’re working on tab and will probably have that done in the next week or two. But you can play all the examples in Soundslice and use the speed controls right now.

If you’ve put in any time working on these techniques, you now have the clearest reference that we have produced thus far for precisely what the two “deviation” forms of these movements look like when done correctly. Hopefully this cuts through some of the confusion. We’d like to see some people start to get this. Let us know how you make out!

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Watched about halfway so far and I’m already ten times more clear on the technique than I was before. The clock-face concept is brilliant and the idea of using supination or pronation to “tilt” the whole apparatus so that one motion lifts and the other simply moves (sorta) straight back was great. I realize that I’ve probably been over complicating the motion this whole time. Looking forward to finishing it.

I took about 10 minutes to monkey around with it and the speed isn’t there yet but the smoothness and comfort is already noticeably better. Great work, guys!

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Thanks Troy. Good to see your X-picking techniques from the video.

Man, my double-escape mechanic is totally different. I feel like I need to call it something else.

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Thank you so much! And thanks for answering my question as well, I wasn’t at home to hear it in real time haha. Thinking of crosspicking more in terms of supination or pronation, rather than relating crosspicking to DWPS/UWPS, is very helpful.

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You got it! That’s all that is really going on here.

We all have! At this point I don’t these techniques are really any more mysterious or difficult than the pickslanting stuff we started out on. I think we just think that because we did that stuff first, so that’s our comfort zone.

A fun experiment, knowing what you know now, is to take a quick scan through the Winfield competitors and see if you can recognize what they’re doing:

https://troygrady.com/interviews/carl-miner-2007/2007-national-flat-pick-guitar-championship-first-round/

It’s a menagerie of different approaches, and it’s clear there is no real standard for these techniques like there is in, say, Gypsy guitar. However, the fact that many of these are some sort of crosspicking movement is unmistakeable.

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I don’t make out very often these days, and I blame Cracking The Code for that! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Little joke there… I hope it works as I’m not a native speaker :sweat_smile:

…and I’ll also let you know of any crosspicking progress!

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These things are all related, and you can think of them both the same way: on the clock. If you can understand why Andy is a uwps player and also a supinated player, then you understand the “2:00” pickslant concept. And then you will also understand the 902 crosspicking concept. And you will recognize that the 0 to 2:00 movement is the same in both techniques - crosspicking just has an extra leg of the journey. A lot of this stuff will be so much clearer when you look at what players are doing.

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@Troy @Brendan thanks a lot for releasing the seminar so quickly! I finally had a chance to look at the full thing, lots of good info to digest.

I have a small comment on the Q&A interface: I think that Troy is receiving the questions in reversed(?) chronological order: the one about mixing strumming and crosspicking was actually the first that was posted, but was answered last. (Actually I was very lucky to have my own question answered at the very start of the Q&A session, so this issue didn’t affect me at all :sunglasses: ).

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Thanks @tommo! Yeah I think how we have it set up now, new questions show up at the top of the list. Troy can answer them in any order, but usually easiest to start from the top to avoid having to scroll through them all while live. Okay in this case since he just answered all of 'em anyway! But we can look into different ways to sort / filter the Qs if this gets to be overwhelming.

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Yes, excellent! Thank you!

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Really fast progress here thanks to the initial short video + the workshop. Excellent! Andy Wood-style is really working for me. Many thanks to Troy and CTC-team. Keep it up. I´ll be checking out Tumeni notes now, gave up on that tune years ago.

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@Troy . Many thanks. Just finished watching the Cross Picking workshop. So many great things in this. The analogies for how it feels and and should look were indeed valuable (and I feel kind of ungrateful for asking this) but if I may, I would like to throw up a suggestion for a base that I don’t see covered yet seems pretty fundamental (at least to my mind) and arguably more pertinent to cross picking.

I’d postulate that the player’s experience is looking down at their hand/wrist/arm more than it is looking in a mirror or a ‘magnet’ view. I wonder if a camera showing the actual player’s birds eye viewing angle (as if the camera was perched on your shoulder) would show something like the cross picking ‘left to right/ anti-string hopping arc’ in a more visually reassuring and (perhaps ultimately) directly transferable way. I get it would take up more screen real estate and editing time etc but even a little drop in would be of benefit perhaps? For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not suggesting a replacement to the magnet view but augmenting it.

Maybe it’s just my preference for visual learning but I sometimes find translating the magnet view to my actual playing experience a bit like this - Have an idea of the movements I want my hand to do but when I tell it do those movements it doesn’t get the right result or when I try and simulate the magnet view with a webcam I’m looking at the screen trying to make the movements look the same and then when I look at my hand (birds eye view) it starts doing a different movement’.

It’s maybe something you’ve already considered. In any case, I just thought I’d throw it out there.

Thanks again.

Steve

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