Down, up, pull off and down, pull off (rest stroke),up --- gypsy jazz rest stroke pickers question

Playing Technique
#1

To anyone who is pretty decent at gypsy jazz rest stroke picking (rest stroke), by this i mean fairly fast at least 10nps. Do you find that if you play this common descended harmonic minor run normally played like this

e15-14-12-11
b----------------13-12-10
g-----------------------------12-11-9-8
d-------------------------------------------10-9-7
a-----------------------------------------------------10-9-7-6

so lets look at the picking of course the first four are picked

d=down
u=up
p=pull off
r=rest stroke

e d,u,d,u
b d,u,p
g d,u,d,u
b d,u,p
a d,u,d,u

ok now to the question say instead of the down up pull off you instead decide to utilize down, pull off (rest stroke), up

do you find any other variations easier to blaze through or that sound more right in terms of rhythmical flow under your hands?

for myself i find that this picking pattern flows so well

d,u,d,u
d,u,p
d,u,d,u
d,p (r),u -so switching gears and doing this instead of the common d,u,p
d,u,d,u

i feel the only reason i can competently do this is because i have learned about 5 gypsy jazz songs including solos all the way through, not easy. but my speed is nowhere near my finger index picking, my rest stroke picking is barely around 9 nps. i aint in it for speed these days though just better rhythmical flow, and trying to decipher the language by ear alone. and one of the first epiphanies i had with rest stroke was indeed this specific manuever, it really tests your patience, and your picking literacy. but i can almost certainly see in my own playing that this indeed helped further my technique, this down, pull off (rest stroke), up.

#2

It feels foreign to me. When I play USX stuff like this, having the pulloff as the last note on the string is what feels the most comfortable. I think the reason is because here:

Even though we can take a little break during the pulloff and there is plenty of time, our picking hand has to do 2 consecutive down strokes: d, p r (rest stroke is also a down stroke), u

That makes me feel like I’m tripping. It’s probably just because I’m used to it that. Pretty sure Uli Jon Roth has a system where he’s always doing pick-slur-pick, pick-slur-pick etc So it’s definitely a thing people do, I just don’t do it.

Also, I’d be using rest strokes on all my down strokes just for the feeling of consistency, not just that one spot you indicated. I can always dig in a little harder for accents if I want them, but the rest stroke is constantly happening. Troy rest strokes almost constantly on his USX playing, and I’m pretty sure Joshcho Stephen does. Different strokes for different folks I guess :slight_smile:

#3

that is right, that is gypsy picking making sure to do rest strokes. in the beginning it is very weird, but you will be suprised at how fast you will be doing it, and it will trip your mind into consciously thinking have i been doing it this whole time? haha i had this feeling in the beginning, it is a cool feeling, always made me check if i was really doing rest strokes because i couldnt believe it. this is why gypsy picking is so helpful cause it really forces you to slow down and do every manuever correctly. once you imprint this blueprint into your technique the sky is the limit.

#4

In most situations I’ll pull off, hammer, slide, whatever it is, on the last note. I don’t wanna have to think ahead too much haha

#5

i guess i wont go into the whole solkattu thing then LMAO! and segment it into all the possible notes per beat or into swing feel.

#6

i dont know what you mean about two consecutive downs. there are licks that do double downs, but here it is just a rest after the previous down waiting to perform the upstroke.

downstroke then note sounds, pick rests on string below as you pull off to sound the note, pick upstrokes to sound the note.

#7

Yeah you are right. Sorry I got confused.

#8

i know this technique can be quite tricky to comprehend. haha i had to slow to a crawl, one baby step at a time, and my speed is nowhere near my finger/index tiny movement picking that i do when trying to play malmsteen runs, and those 312321 fragments. i just like the phrases in the genre, so i dove in but i might drown so… haha

but i have gotten much faster than when i started, and know even those multiple downs during descended arpeggio sections are getting quicker. some of those guys can make it sound so fluid, but if i think about what they are doing, my goodness it is like breaking the boundaries of what is physically possible.

and the more i try to wrap my head around speed, the more it always winds up that its so fast due to swing. haha

because everytime i have trouble playing some fast run if i swing tempo it at half speed all the way through it then burst into triplets/sextuplets the second time around for some reason its just easier than when i attempted it before using this trick.