DSX much easier than USX [Wrist Motion]

Technique Critique
#1

Hello,
I would like to first say that I’m a mainly DSX player currently learning TWPS. However, I’m currently throttled in my technique. As the title says, I find that DSX is heaps easier for me to do and maintain than USX. Indeed, I can comfortably hold a 160bpm 16ths for minutes without getting tired. It basically feels completely effortless/frictionless and I can barely feel the string I’m playing. However, 20bpm lower, USX is giving me trouble and I can barely keep it up for 20-30 seconds before fatiguing. It feels like I have to put force and tension to get the pick through the string. So, I went under the microscope, and indeed, my USX technique basically has the pick stuck to the string on every stroke compare to my DSX technique that has the pick barely touch the string:

And so, wrist-based USX/TWPS players, how do you set up your hands and what do you do to ensure that the motion of the pick goes through the string as effortlessly and frictionless-ly as possible?

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#2

Apologies in advance, as I’m not really answering your proposed question, but since your DSX motion is working considerably better, why not capitalize on that? I don’t think many people are truly equally skilled at both, and more often favor one or the other, adding in a helper motion (or hammer/pull, or economy) for lines that aren’t solely using their strong escape. So, rather than trying to play single string ideas with both a DSX and USX motion, why not just stick with DSX and do some attempts at multi-string lines that require both escapes, see what happens?

#3

Hey there!

With our more updated understanding, we nowadays prefer to think of “primary plus secondary motion” instead of “TWPS”. I’m going to link a free article by Troy below that explains this.

TLDR: you don’t really need to “master” both USX and DSX motions to play these kinds of mixed escape lines. You are totally fine using DSX as your primary motion :slight_smile:

As a general note for the future, it would be good to include both normal speed and slomo clips to get the most effective feedback. Normal speed is important to evaluate key big picture aspects like motion smoothness and how good the example actually sounds. Slomo is of course helpful to investigate some smaller-picture details (typically helpful to assess and solve problems).

#4

@Riffdiculous @tommo
Interesting, you guys are right, I’ll focus on speeding up my DSX motion and working on getting my left hand synchronized with it instead of chasing both motions. I’ll just use a hammer/pull or hybrid picking motion to turn my 3nps lines into 2nps lines. Thanks for the feedback!

#5

just ask the flamenco greats how many techniques they utilize so many different picking/strumming techniques it will make your mind melt. i want to learn some of it, but it is hard finding good instruction. might just require anaylzing the players on my own both the rest plant/sweep through string and strict always alternate rest/plant picado players. and furthermore you got yamandu costa who might be doing gypsy rest stroke with his thumb since he has been seen to do upstrokes with his thumb. :laughing:

#6

Great clip! Thanks for filming. Being able to play for minutes at 160 is a good sign that your motion is efficient.

In addition to what Tommo said, I just want to clarify that players who can play both downstroke and upstroke string changes in the same phrase are not doing it by switching to a whole different picking style. So you shouldn’t be trying to do this, and you don’t have to worry about your USX form being slower.

Instead, there are two general ways that “mixed escape” is accomplished:

  1. Use a simple picking motion all the time, like your DSX motion, with occasional “helper” motion for when the opposite string change is needed. This is the style Tommo is referring to.

  2. Use only one joint or motion the whole time. This only works if the joint or motion is capable of double escape motion. These players don’t always do double escape for everything, but it’s there to handle the opposite string changes when they need it. So the joint or motion stays the same, but they may use only part of its range of motion at any given moment.

Notice that in both cases, you use only one overall form. Any changes to that form are temporary. So no matter what, you still need to have one core form (joint motion, arm position, anchor points, pick grip, etc.) that you are comfortable with and use basically for everything.

So… your DSX form seems like a good starting point for this. If we recommend any changes to that, they’re likely to be small, to make “mixed escape” possible when needed, but not a complete reworking of everything. When in doubt, make a TC on the platform and we’ll take a look!

#7

I’ve posted about this on here pretty often, but I would recommend much more positive pick point.

Here’s the most recent thread in which I talked about it. I have a few videos over a few posts in there.

#8

@Troy @tommo
Hello again, and thank you for replying. I have given your advice a try and incorporated a secondary helper motion into my DSX motion. I am pretty fast at inside picking triplets and I never understood why. After looking at the Andy Wood GIF in the link that was sent and observing my picking up close, I understood why. It seems like I’ve always had some kind of helper motion to do so. So I tried adding that motion into a 3nps up-and-down picking pattern. Here is the result:

There’s a lot of scratching and hitting the strings which kind of trips me over a long period of time. But the bio-mechanics are going to sort themselves out with time, I guess as the movement optimizes. Especially with this being my first time trying. What do you think?

#9

Thanks for the update! In general, this is a good starting point.

It also looks more like option 2 rather than option 1. Yes, there is a small amount of forearm here, but it’s really minimal, and doesn’t look like the typical helper motion examples we see.

Instead, when you see players that look like you, where the arm doesn’t move much, and mostly the hand is moving, that’s wrist technique. And the wrist can make all string changes. So to make your life simpler, you should just assume you’re on the path toward an Andy Wood-style technique, where you have one basic form and the wrist makes all the motions. Any forearm involvement is minimal and you should basically ignore it.

There is some upstroke swiping here. You will have to figure out how to make that go away by experimenting with different phrases, and maybe making some slight tweaks to your form. I would proceed by assembling a diverse basket of phrases you want to play, especially ones that don’t adhere to the more common 2- and 3-note-per-string structure. Here are a couple of good examples:

Go fast at first while ignoring mistakes, to make sure you don’t get stuck on making motions that only work at slow speed. Once you’re sure your motion is fast and feels smooth, you can slow down from there, gradually, while trying to fix mistakes. That’s the process in a nutshell.

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