Everything you need to know about crosspicking

Playing Technique
#95

Me neither. I don’t get this whole “alternate picking” thing, it all looks like down up down to me!

Kidding. Yes, crosspicking is a style of alternate picking, so it’s going to be down-up-down-up and so on. The question is how are you making those pickstrokes? You are hitting on the right point: crosspicking uses a curved, or “fully escaped” pickstroke where the pick exits the strings after every note. This is how you get over the strings hitting them.

The trick is that there are ways to do this that are inefficient and strain the arm, and there are ways to do this that are efficient and smooth. The method we’re demonstrating here is one of the smooth ones, roughly similar to what some bluegrass guitarists use.

For those that are working on this, here’s another closeup with some slow motion so you can see what this is supposed to look like:

You can see how flat the movement is. It is mostly side-to-side wrist deviation, with a dash of wrist flexion/extension as a helper. Even then, if you didn’t know that’s what was happening, you’d really be hard pressed to understand how exactly this works. At least I would, because I am not so quick on the uptake. That’s one of the reasons I dig the forward roll pattern - it’s a little physical puzzle everyone is capable of solving, and showing your friends. Like the moonwalk!

When you’re practicing, film yourself and compare, to make sure you’re getting that smooth and flat movement.

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#96

so is it ok to say after watching you play in this clip! You just have to use ur wrist to get over the other strings to hit the higher Notes, similar to uwps or 2 way pick slanting ? Thanks for the great help and site!

#97

It’s true I am using mainly wrist movement here. But I wouldn’t worry about trying to think of this as picklanting or two-way pickslanting - we’ve been down that road and it mainly leads to confusion. Instead, just think of it as a particular kind of wrist movement used to get over the strings, that has to be done a certain way or it won’t be efficient. There’s a lot of discussion on exactly how it works in this thread.

In addition, this is the video we made to describe how the wrist movement works. It’s part of the Albert Lee interview series of analysis videos:

https://troygrady.com/interviews/albert-lee/analysis-chapter-4-the-compound-curve/

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#98

Thanks bro! since I found you on youtube ,my picking has come along way!

#99

Right on. Try to be objective about this and film / test yourself often. If someone thinks they’re making progress, but really aren’t, it doesn’t really matter if they enjoy our stuff or not. Results are what we’re after.

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#100

And here’s a quick medley of some patterns I like to practice with this technique. Ringing chords - they are the cure for “descending sixes” / “six-note pattern” overdose:

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#101

Yes I have to learn how to up load video still, but I know I’m made a lot of progress because I can play along with some of ur lessons, Not at full speed yet, But I will get there No matter what it takes,!

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#102

What chord progression (triads and inversions on string sets) are you going through here to practice the Forward Roll Pattern?

#103

I’d have to walk through this but it’s in C and it’s the usual suspects - I, Isus4, IV, V and a little VI. The only outsider is IIdom7 which you’ll hear a couple points. It’s a common move in major to hit the dominant of II, resolve to V, resolve to I. Not sure if that gives you the general gist…

#104

What is the purpose of the extension you do in the wrist, when showing the setup? The only way I feel like I can extend it like that, is if I place my hand on the pickguard (kind of palming the bridge), whereas my hand will naturally be flat (much less extended) if it’s on the bridge.

On pickguard:

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On bridge:

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#105

I can’t say specifically, and it may be that I’m exaggerating the extent of it in the demonstration part of the tutorial video. But take a look at the slow motion clip a few posts up. You’ll see that the palm is definitely lifted above the strings. This differs from my downward pickslanting setup where the pinky rests on the strings and mutes them. You can have this wrist extension posture and still be supinated, where upstrokes deviate and downstrokes deviate+extend. But it’s easier to come out the other side of the crosspicking movement - maybe because you’re not asking your hand to take such a hard right turn.

This may also be why some people complain that they can’t make crosspicking work if they use a “pickslanting” posture. If that posture includes gluing your pinky to the bridge then maybe there’s a connection there. Andy Wood talks about this in one of our recent workshops, where he says he feels it is harder to do the motion when muting. However he can still do it. So I would maybe flip that around suggest that if you can get the movement unmuted with the extension bend, maybe it is for whatever reason easier that way. But the knowledge of what that feels like when done correctly can make it easier to get it while muted with less extension, like Andy does - because now you can feel what it’s like to make that pickstroke come out the other side without making such an acute change in direction.

These are just guesses.

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#106

Troy’s remark about tracing a “U” shape with the wrist really helped me sort out the crosspicking mechanic. Still a ton of work to do, but concentrating on that simple movement has helped me improve at least.

#107

Hey @Troy,

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “coming out the other side”, could you elaborate a little? As far as I understand, you are demonstrating a crosspicking style with a supinated forearm and an extended wrist, where the downstrokes deviate and extend, while the upstrokes only deviate. So are you saying that it’s harder to do this way than some other ways?

The other thing I’m curious about is the muting issue.

As far as I know, your demonstrations did not include any muting. Do you find it hard to mute? I would also be interested in hearing what other people say about this. I’m guessing that @hamsterman uses quite a bit of muting in his crosspicking style. It would be learn more about that.

#108

I’m just referring to hitting the string and going back up into the air again before the downstroke completes and the upstroke begins (or vice versa). This extra leg of the journey is what differentiates a fully-escaped pickstroke like the kind used in crosspicking and two-way pickslanting from the single-escaped pickstroke used in one-way pickslanting. In a single-escape pickstroke, the pick goes down into the plane of the strings, hits the target string and stops, completing the downstroke.

They did not. And if you use a movement that is only wrist, you’re probably not going to get any muting if you use the Molly Tuttle / David Grier pronated style of crosspicking. If you use the supinated style however you can get muting with the pinky laying across the strings. Some people think this is trickier to do and Andy says as much in the interview. So maybe there is something to that. That’s all I’m referencing here.

There are lots of other ways to generate a fully-escaped pickstroke, some methods using blends of forearm movement and wrist movement, like I’ve demonstrated elsewhere:

Muting is possible with this method thanks to the way the hand lays across the strings. For the most part, when you observe players who are able to get muting while crosspicking, it’s because they have a supinated arm position. There could be exceptions using the thumb side of the hand for muting while using a pronated arm setup for crosspicking. I’m just saying this is a generalization.

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#109

Actually… I have a similar problem… i have to sorta add pressure to mute… and its awkward and uncomfortable… similar to Andy Wood. But I do it when I have to. I feel like my natural position is when my wrist is about an inch above the strings.

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#110

@Troy : most of what you say is now perfectly clear for me. I think you laid down the puzzle pieces pretty neatly

Just one thing though :

What about if you’re doing a backward roll, like

E-------------------
B---u----d-----u----
G-----d----u--------
D-------u----d------
A-------------------
E-------------------

In that case, for the inside skip string from D (upstroke) to B (downstroke), do you think a mere deviation is enough ? Or some extra escape motion on the upstroke necessary to clear the G string to skip ?

#111

Forward roll, backward roll doesn’t matter, nothing substantial changes.

#112

Muting is quite important to me. (I assume you mean palm muting effect on the sound) That is one of the reasons which pushed me towards learning the crosspicking approach as seen in the most recent YouTube clip uploaded here by Troy (rotational blend crosspicking).

I also want to have the ability to change the amount of edgepicking and this kind of setup allows me to change the angle of my wrist which changes edgepicking.
To illustrate it, I can point my forearm and wrist almost parallel to the strings (which gives me almost no edgepicking) or I can point my wrist and forearm more towards the ground (which gives me much more edgepicking). So that’s cool. The only slight problem is that the part of my hand which actually does the palm muting changes slightly because of these shifts but the technique stays relatively the same. Or at least it feels basically the same to me. And after some practice, it’s not really a problem anymore.

If somebody else has some more thoughts about the crosspicking approach which allows for palm muting and manipulating the level of the edgepicking, I’d love to hear them :slight_smile:

#113

Maybe this is a good place to bring it up. Does 1NPS cross picking (at anything above 120 bpm) not work too well with light strings? Especially when there is a lot of string skipping, etc.

I tried it on my friends guitar with .09, and it felt akward, like the strings were vibrating too much. Or maybe my form is a bit too stiff. Here’s my form at about 125 bpm. I am trying to remain relaxed… but i’m definitely hitting the strings pretty hard.

#114

Any supinated approach will allow ulnar-side palm muting. Steve Morse is a classic example. Super-supinated, entire right side of the hand on the strings. But also approaches like Martin Miller’s which aren’t as supinated, but where again the entire side of the hand is glued to the strings. Which is ok in Martin’s case because the fingers take over some of the movement.

It’s only the pronated Molly Tuttle / David Grier style where there is not really any or much ulnar-side palm contact.

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