Frustration and Feeling Down

This. I’ve found that there’s a certain level of “concentration exhaustion” where my hands suddenly stop working properly and I can’t play even things that are normally trivial for me. I take this as the sign to go take a break – a long one.

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The chances of any guitarist today starting a revolution the likes of Van Halen or Malmsteen is slim to none, and because of how the music industry has changed, even if someone did, they have virtually no chance of reaping the financial rewards those guys did.

Having high aspirations and working hard does not require a person to beat themselves up and feel like shit on a regular basis. In interviews with successful “obsessive” people, they don’t typically describe the obsessive tasks as a chores they dread, but rather something they do obsessively because of the feeling of intrinsic reward they get from doing it.

And nobody can make great music when they’re dead. Just ask Danny Gatton, Ronnie Montrose, or Chris Cornell, or any one of thousands of aspiring musicians you never heard of because they were one of the 120-some people in the United States who commit suicide every day.

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@eric_divers, @Acecrusher’ point is worth considering.

If one can be relentless in effort, while doing what it takes to achieve balance and real growth, that’s ideal in my book. @RG707 is evidently striving in an unhealthy way that’s leading to depression, but regardless, the pursuit is admirable. May everyone find what they need to stay healthy.

If one has that drive, more of the same isn’t necessarily going to lead to happiness. Evaluating the content of that practice definitely could help. Peace, Daniel

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In a nutshell, this!

Respectfully, I think you’re missing the point here. The problem is not the relentless practicing. The problem is when you tie your self esteem to your hobby ability. Nobody should do this. It’s a recipe for emotional disaster. If you do this, and you can’t shake it, you should stop playing and seek assistance. This has nothing to do with dedication, determination, motivation, achieving great things in life, becoming a legendary guitar hero. It says nothing about the dedication or motivation of the person involved. Perfectly normal and positive-minded people find this challenging every day.

By all means go out there and grab life by the horns. But make sure you keep the necessary mental and emotional distance. As a guy on the internet with a target on my back for every little last thing I do, say, or even look like, I feel like I can speak to this kind of pressure a little bit. It’s not easy, and it’s a skill / coping mechanism you can develop. If you don’t recognize the emotional toll that this shit takes and take steps to keep it in perspective, at arm’s length, you’re stepping onto the battlefield naked.

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This certainly struck a chord with me. For a big part of my musical past I felt like “I” was as good as the last note or phrase I played. It’s extremely unhealthy, as @RG707 and others already acknowledged. It really did take a shift in perspective for me to approach music in a better way. Several things helped in this regard.

The first was a practice journal. The simple act of documenting what I was working on, giving me the ability to flip back and look at progress (or trouble spots) is so helpful to allowing me to approach playing as a process and helped me stop looking at my playing or myself as “good” or “bad”. On bad days, the journal is a tangible reminder that I have good days too. On good days, it keeps me diligent and humble, knowing that I didn’t get here by accident.

The second thing that really changed my perspective for the better was some of the “extra curricular” reading I was doing - particularly the writings of some of the Stoic philosophers (Seneca’s Moral Letters, Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations, or even Darren Brown’s Happy as modern intro on the subject). Helped me put some things in perspective and adopt a healthier outlook generally and it certainly spilled over into my musical life.

Whatever path you take, I hope you do find some peace with yourself and with the process of learning and playing.

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OP:

I can’t say much that hasn’t been said, but if you want a quick boost, go flip your guitar upside down and try to play left or right handed. You’ll realize how far you’ve come. It’s such a simple thing but it’s supremely powerful.*

Also keep in mind that many of the elite players in CtC and other such places have had their mechanical systems in place for years if not DECADES. I mean wouldn’t it be a little depressing if these guys practiced as much as they did and DIDN’T have their systems down to such a science? Marshall Harrison has been practicing since the first half of the 90s. Troy, well we all know his story. Rick Graham. Guthrie. I mean the list goes on.

*Doesn’t count if you are Michael Angelo Batio.

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Hahaha! Long live the quad guitar.

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Thanks guys. A lot of really good ideas and feedback here. Hopefully others will find this helpful too.

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Ultimately you’re going to have to make your own decision on what your goals are and what price you’re willing to pay to get there. I’m not sure that anyone here has asked this: What are your goals regarding music?

The enclosed youtube clip gets to the heart of this matter better than anything I’ve heard, from someone who has been there.

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I would like to be as good as I can be. That’s pretty much it. I want to start putting some covers/original songs I have been working on with my friend on YouTube eventually I’m just not good enough right now to really play the stuff I want to the way I want to, but I am working on it. I don’t need to be or expect to be as good as any of the elite players of the world.

Not too early to record yourself as if you were going to post! Learn to love what you hear. :pray:t3:

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That’s an admirable goal. You seem to have that drive that is necessary to reach your goal. I have that drive too so I can relate. That drive is a crucial thing to have when you’re trying to achieve something that is extremely difficult to achieve. Naturally, when you have that type of drive, it’s going to affect you more if you have an off day or you find your progress slowing down. That wouldn’t affect us so much if we didn’t care so much about what we’re doing! There’s a flip side to that coin and that is when we reach a certain milestone along the way to our goal, or even if we just have a day when we play very well, it feels great!

In this discussion I found a lot of people ignoring that and other positive aspects that go along with being very driven to pursue a goal. I’ve tried to provide a balance to that. I’ve stated there certainly is a price to be paid in this pursuit, but the satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment to be found can be tremendous.

I’d like to ask you one more thing: Do you consider music to be just a hobby or is it something more than just a hobby such as your profession or something you intend to make your profession? Is it something you plan on dedicating your life to doing?

I strongly advise you watch the enclosed interview clip and get an idea of what you need to realistically expect if you truly want to become the very best musician you can become from a man who has been there, who has paid that price and ultimately succeeded in attaining his goal. You may find it reassuring to learn about the price he had to pay along the way to achieving his goal. Let me know what you think of what he has to say on this subject and how it applies to the distress you’ve been feeling - whether you think what you’ve been feeling seems like something to be expected or if you’ve been feeling something that you think goes above and beyond the natural feelings to be expected when you’re pursuing something this difficult that means this much to you.

I also recommend recording yourself. Record yourself when you’re having a good day and playing well. Then when you have on off day, you can play back the recording of how you sound on a good day to remind yourself that you’re a better player than your playing on that one bad day would indicate. This could help with your frame of mind and keeping a positive attitude.

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I think part of the frustration behind guitar for the average person (not naturally gifted) is the breadth that has to be taken in. The foundational skills, the vast variety of techniques, and the actual integration of those things into a musically pleasing product takes a lot longer than people imagine. You really can’t rush it or you will just set yourself up for failure.

One thing I’ve tried to do in order to avoid discouragement is to work on a handful of techniques at a time, and dedicate some honest, daily practice with a metronome. Give yourself 6-8 weeks to develop a given technique, but make sure you’re giving a little time every day to sharpen it up. Once you get them rolling, you can move on to other techniques and just brush up on the stuff your hands and mind have assimilated into your playing ability.

If a technique seems to be stalled out on progress, put it down for a while and focus on other stuff. I hammered two-way pickslanting for a solid 6 weeks and it was utter failure. I walked away from it for a couple months and was able to revisit it and I only recently discovered how to get it humming along. I literally gave up on it completely, but then all of a sudden it started to happen with a bit of practice.

Also, in the inimitable words of Yngwie J. Malmsteen, “If you want to play fast, you’ve got to play fast.”

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Cool topic and clearly something a lot of us can relate to. Keep your head up, and try and find that balance. One of the life’s great ironies is when you stop looking, searching, practicing, etc. is usually when you have a breakthrough.

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I think the key part of that interview is the bit at 1:42: “But I was extreme. I think that there was something weird that was driving me, because it wasn’t like, you know, ‘Oh yeah, well if you do this you’re going to be really famous’ or something like that, no.”

That bit speaks to the “intrinsic reward” aspect I was talking about that comes up frequently with successful people who behave in obsessive ways. The obsessive behavior isn’t a calculated choice, it’s something they feel driven to do for it’s own sake. Steve Vai uses the term “juice” to refer to this idea. In the video below, at 5:02, he says “I’ve had a lot of challenges, I’ve been through a lot. But when it came to my feelings about what I do, and my ‘success’ so to speak? Never struggled a day in my life. Because for me, playing the guitar is my juice.” From context and other interviews, he means he enjoys the challenge of working to learn something he can’t play yet. Or to put it in perhaps more glib terms, he finds the journey itself rewarding. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t work hard, and it doesn’t mean he doesn’t make sacrifices. And in the very same video, there’s a part where he talks about being very demanding of himself. But the key is that for him, he finds reward in doing the work itself. If you aren’t able to find reward in the work itself, holding yourself to the kind of training schedules and standards that guys like Vai or Malmsteen did is going to be a path to misery.

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More from Vai on his mindset, particularly starting at 3m28s. The larger point of the video is a more philosophical point about the role of technique.

A key line that may apply to the theme of this thread (at 5m45s):
"The way that you stay patient without getting frustrated is: instead of getting mad at yourself because you’re missing something, you rejoice in every little accomplishment, like I mentioned before. That keeps the momentum going. And the momentum is the passion. Passion is momentum. You know, it’s just that feeling of “Yeah! This is just… I love this. This is great. I just like this, you know? I just want to do this…” He then goes on to talk about how the concept of “passion” can get overblown, and suggests that what he’s talking about can be built up from small victories and more subtle positive feelings; it doesn’t have to start out as a big overpowering thing.

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Yes, that shows Yngwie’s goal was becoming a virtuoso - not the pursuit of fame. He achieved fame and money as a byproduct of his pursuit of virtuosity.

I asked RG707 what his goal was because had it been fame, well, I stated in my first post in this thread “…there’s no rock music business anymore since almost all the major record labels have gone out of business thanks to illegal downloading and MP3s which allow people to buy a “single” for $1.29 which is roughly what a 45 rpm single cost 30 or more years ago.” So I was glad to find out RG707’s goal is not fame but becoming the best he can be.

Of particular relevance to this thread as well is the part where Yngwie says “If you wanna be an incredibly good musician, that’s no easy way to do it. It’s blood, sweat and tears. You cannot compromise. You have to sacrifice, you have to suffer, you have to be ridiculed; it’s not something that comes easy.”