Handling ranty posters

It was pretty obnoxious big 2000s “Learning CAGED locks you in a cage man, here’s what they will never tell you” vibes.

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They’ve probably got a lifetime subscription to Tom Hess.

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whats wrong with caged? i think that is actually a great foundation for learning chords to further develop into learning where the chord tones are located for melodic purposes…

plus the longer you play the more you start breaking out of those prisons, but you have to put in the work first.

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Now, now…don’t start :slight_smile: :crazy_face:

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Nothing is wrong with CAGED just don’t ask some corners of the internet guitar instructional world about it they’ll tell you how it’s the worst thing ever along with other mind numbing greatest hits such as “music theory kills creativity.”


Despite all his rage he’s still just a Joe in a CAGE. :joy:

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My two cents:

CAGED is simply just one of numerous ways to look at the fretboard
So is 3NPS scales
Box patterns
Arpeggios
Intervals
…etc, etc, etc…

If the fretboard is a jewel…the various ways of viewing the fretboard are its facets.

Suggesting one is good or bad is ridiculous. They’re all describing the same thing, viewed from different organizational perspectives.

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yikes that myth should get put to bed very soon so we can get back on track with actually fast tracking theory to every musician.

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Hi everyone!
Following recent events, we will soon update the forum guidelines to set specific rules on how to deal with “trolls”. Here’s the gist of it:

The key idea is to not engage directly when a person is obviously in “bad faith”, and instead alert us (the moderators). Obviously, this raises the question of how to tell when someone is here only in bad faith since it’s not always obvious.

Here is a tentative a checklist:

If:

  1. the user is new, or has not demonstrated civilised engagement with the community
  2. the user says negative things with no real intent to start a discussion or help people
  3. the user responds frequently with challenges or dismissively/ aggressively repeating the same points
  4. we’re open to suggestions :slight_smile:

…then they may be a troll and operating in bad faith, please do not engage with them, and instead report to us. Even if you think they are spreading misinformation, don’t address their technical issues because they really don’t have any, they’re just trying to troll you or the community.

Of course, we’re still totally happy to have frank discussions on the subjects we teach, However, there is a clear difference between:

“lolz what you teaching is BS”

and

“I’m not sure your approach X is correct, have you considered Y and Z”?

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Don’t you mean a John in a CAGE? :grin:

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Honestly 4’33" would be so much more engaging to Cage’s intent if it was done on the top of a building in the middle of a town/city. Get to really bathe in the ambience and noise pollution.

More of a fan of his proto-Sonic Youth affectations though. 4’33" is good it’s just a bit quiet for my tastes I think we need to get Rick Rubin to remaster/mix it.

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In a Rick Beato rant about how stupid the recent Rolling Stone list of 250 greatest guitarists was, he rightly ranted that Joe was left off. Pretty sure he said something about Joe being responsible for CAGED. Does anyone know anything about that? I’ve got his “Lines” instructional video (which is great) and I don’t recall him saying anything about CAGED. My takeaway is that he thinks of complex harmony in a simplified manner and just treats all chords as major, minor or dominant :slight_smile:

This is BTW on topic, because I’m referencing a “rant”

EDIT:

Here it is. He claims Joe invented CAGED

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I guess my only suggestion, and based on a depressingly long (like, early-00s through today) track record as a moderator or admin elsewhere, is the more you can promote transparency in process, the better. I.e. - I don’t know if, given pretty clear negative intent, I’d delete and PM; I’d probably instead close the thread with a polite explanation of why, and if the issue persisted, maybe give one more firmer warning and then just ban them. Maybe delete the threads after a period of time (can you set up some sort of admin-level close for behavior category where they auto-delete after 30 days?) but not immediately.

Codified forum rules help to a point, but can also cause more confusion - often times moderation is like the Supreme Court joke about p0rn, where when it comes to bad behavior, you can’t define it but you know it when you see it, and we’ve had instances where something clearly needed to get shut down but then spiraled into a “which specific rule did I break” discussion, which is a waste f everyone’s time (one of the persistent arguments I’ve run across is posters insisting they have a “right to free speech” that’s being violated - they don’t, posting on a private discussion board is a privilege and not a right, and definitely not part of civil discourse in the government sense of the term).

It’s a fine line because you can’t create the impression that “oh, those guys just ban anyone they don’t agree with,” either, but I think it’s easier to see when there’s a public record that there’s a difference in how a community treats straight-up trolls, vs people who disagree with something but are also willing to discuss and present their ideas to the contrary, and actually hear the opposing viewpoints… but at the end of the day I’d rather see you all focusing on analyzing guitar technique rather than handling internet trolls with kid gloves, and I think a process that’s fast, clear, and efficient is the best way to balance those two.

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Having moderated various things since the early 90s, it’s always best to be transparent and keep things private. Warnings should be pm’d, posts/threads removed to just stop any bandwagoning/dog piling/white knighting. Public shaming is excessively poor form, unless the person has demonstratably proven they are only there to troll and gas light. Then there is room for an example, followed by the removal of the ability to post, but still view.