It doesn’t help that I struggle to actually hear the words that people sing, unless its REALLY clear. It might as well be in a foreign language (which I would enjoy regardless)
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Some of my favorite songs have lyrics that are, in isolation, pretty juvenile. I still think the songs are great – and the lyrics fit them!
The point I’m trying to make here is that it goes both ways – if people like your song, they’ll probably wind up liking your lyrics anyway.
Really? I would probably change it to ‘tolerate your lyrics’ 
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I always go back to this video from time to time whenever I need a little motivation, in music or life. I hope it helps you too!
We all got something worth saying. But sometimes we feel so stomped on by people who will do anything to convince us our voice isn’t worth listening to that we end up believing it. Many people will hate us and try to put us down if we dare to believe in ourselves, but others will love it and feel inspired by it. As I said, do not allow yourself to put yourself down even before others have the chance to put you down! Come on, it’s just not very nice to deny them the opportunity to realize how wrong they are!
Lyrics are definitely the trickiest part for me too! I spend a lot of time just trying to figure out what the hell I want to say, but sometimes I feel like I spend more time criticizing whatever ideas I have and blaming myself for not having the ability to instantly figuring out the most amazing lyrics ever than actually writing! I guess it’s all part of the process and we have either to learn how to enjoy it or endure it.
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When they say “anything worth doing is worth doing badly…” 
I capture moments of inspiration on my phone, either right after or while I’m writing them. These are “song seeds”, usually 30 seconds to 2 minutes long. Sometimes I will keep coming up with variations or multiple ideas for 20 or 30 minutes, so I keep the recorder going. I can edit out nonsense later.
On days I don’t have any ideas coming I go through my seeds. Sometimes I delete them or relabel them. I also record when I work on a seed, especially when I feel I’ve added something new.
I recently finished a song that I started almost 20 years ago.
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I have very little experience with writing “songs” as such. I’ve been a terrible improv player all my life, I’ve never had the discipline to record some of the better jams as I’m sure there were moments of potential songs in there, but then I go and listen to Chick Correa or something later in the day, which is rather humbling. Most of the time when something comes our right I’m sure it’s just a shard of something I’ve heard before but can’t remember where, when or what.
I’ve only tried to capture some ideas in the last year or two, and I think I’m onto a second track, the first one is far from done. I’ve posted it here before.
I think the drum loop idea is cool, though maybe with and without have their moments of possibility. Getting stuck is what I’m best at 
I still have no idea what makes a chorus a chorus and a verse a verse, is it just an A and B part thing or is it more than that. I know there can be an underlying motif but beyond that it’s over my head.
This insight is pure gold, I’m struggle beyond the cool guitar part. I need to put more effort here. I have a lot to say, the world is rather colorful, more so today than ever with social media, news etc.
I should write stuff down and see what comes of it, but I know I have this issue of struggle with finding a middle ground, the imposter thing you mentioned, but also I over do things, I can brood over a sentence till it’s lost it’s original simplicity and is now a garish monster of wasted time. I suppose this take a lot more practice than I appreciate… I’m doing it again.
As far as coming up with bits, I think what works sometimes is a mini sabbatical from playing, always a good idea to be mindful of your first play after a break for new ideas. I haven’t been playing for months, it’s quite evident but the good thing is it takes me a day of intense playing to get back to the level I left off at, almost I guess.
Always here’s an idea from yesterday, new strings n all… it’s really rough, first cut, and totally out of it. I thought there were some interesting ideas there, I developed them further today but I haven’t recorded that yet.
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I struggle with this too, I keep telling my self i’ll pay more attention to it but I never remember, I guess I haven’t had enough emotional turmoil 
I say that because that’s when I know I really don’t want to pay attention 
I think it all comes down to emotion. You know the difference between a verse and a chorus simply by feel.
Sure, there are other things, chorus tend to repeat themselves and be very similar to each other, but even that isn’t necessarily true. Take Smells Like Teen Spirit. Verses vary by lyrics, while chorus remain the same. Verses are more low-key, chorus are intense, climatic. It’s easy to identify which is which. But take a song like Lover, You Should’ve Come Over. There’s no easily identifiable chorus. There’s one part when Jeff starts to sing “Sometimes a man gets carried away”, which I would call a chorus, but that part doesn’t even repeat itself! I got songs with very clear-cut chorus and songs without easily identifiable chorus. I’m not worried whether a song has a chorus or not. Some of the best songs, like Bohemian Rhapsody, are more like a story, they don’t follow ABAB-C-B, simple, clear-cut formulas. I"m more worried that the song tells such a story, shows emotion, means something, than that it follows whatever structure people say sells best. The songs sometimes write themselves when you have that mindset, in my experience.
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You make good points. I hadnt though it through all the way.
I really like the story telling format, like theater. Or opera. I grew up with jazz and classical which is rather free for the most part.
I usually start by jamming to a drum beat, this is where I come up with a riff or idea. Ill sometimes use a bass for this step then layer guitar riffs on top of the bass riff etc. I have tried starting with guitar then laying drums over that also, but usually Ill have a drum beat first. I am not a vocalist or lyricist so , ususally the lyrics come last or near last, and sometimes my lyrics are minimal. As far as a song structure you could start with a traditional ABACAB arrangement or any variation thereof. I have written songs with just verse, chorus, verse, chorus ,solo outro structure etc. There is no set rule for structure IMO if it sounds good go with it .
i almost posted another thread but this seems like one similar. i have been wondering this as well.
my biggest question
how do you melody? 
should i see a psychiatrist first so i know how to express how i am truly feeling? cause i probably hide that from myself.
i have been binge watching mr robot, man this show is on the level of breaking bad. 
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This is a very good question! The answer you’ll usually get is: “the rule is that there is no rule” 
… or some boring stuff about hitting chord tones on downbeats, which usually leads to uninspiring stuff.
So… I got no answer but I just made up some random exercises:
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Take a melody that you like, and find a cool way to modify it (change rhythm, tonality, add/remove notes, whatever!)
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generate a completely random chord progression, and create a simple melody that goes well above it. You can start with steady 8th notes and go from there.
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generate a random arrangement of 5 or 6 notes (with dice, picking up pieces of paper, whatever!), then supply rhythm, underlying chords, build variations etc.
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generate a random rhythm and then put notes on it
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take a famous melody and play it backwards, then find a way to modify it to make it nice
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copy the rhythm of a famous melody, change all the notes and harmony. IF the original was happy try to make it sad, etc.
Now some words from someone who (unlike me) can actually do this
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Aside from Tommo’s good answer, my sort of joking but mostly serious answer would be to review the work of Tchaikovsky. It is just an opinion and others may not share it, but I think he is the greatest melody writer ever. Studying his note choice, phrase structure and the underlying harmony (and counterpoint) in his compositions yield great findings.
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i have never really checked out tchaikovsky (reading on wiki about him), which songs do you find you listen to the most?
I just don’t understand it, as I have never really met someone who creates music to sort of pick their brain, or better yet just hang around them to see how they tick. I am like my dad very analytical so you can get that well creativity gets thrown out the window fast. So even if I do start to get creative, the analytical thing starts creeping in quickly so we will begin the pattern embellishment thing way to quickly. Then the critical part comes in why did I do that note, or that is silly it doesn’t make sense to play this note, or why am I doing this rhythm. Do i even know the notes? I hear nothing inside. Is music even my calling? haha this is the story of my brain. Sure I could free hand a drawing, maybe even come up with something as a one off of some other thing or creation someone else did, maybe rearrange this viola! haha just kidding. But to just spawn something out of thin air I ain’t got it. And it feels like it stems from maybe not being playful enough with the notes of a tetrachord/arpeggio from within. And here is that thinking that I need to be in some soundscape first to even start the melody which is already setting off a bad path possibly… But this is why I said maybe I should seek outside help from a phsyciatrist so we might get to the roots of my feelings so i know how to even express them but i might not like the outcome cause it might not be music. haha these are my musings
maybe the key is to just meditate on a bass synth drone note or tanpura, and just see (well not see cause its music so listen would be best put in this sentence ) if i can let something manifest on its own? cause as long as the note has all the overtones present i won’t be tempted to stay in major, minor, or phrygian
My favorites are the Nutcracker (cliche, I know but it’s just bloody brilliant!), and then his symphonies. I think his best are (in order) his 6th, 5th and 4th. I’ve never checked out his first three symphonies but I remember reading he wasn’t as mature of a composer when he wrote them so I didn’t bother lol. His first piano concerto is considered great also. I am not as familiar with that as I am the symphonies but I do remember liking that a lot too.
After that, his other stuff that is well known and also full of great melodies would be Sleeping Beauty, and Swan Lake.
I guess in the context of your melody question though, maybe none of this matters lol! You want more like a step by step way of writing a melody maybe? In that case I’d say to check out the type of stuff they teach in a college level theory course. Most of those “rules”, from what I was told, were derived from consistencies found it Bach’s works. It will have stuff like which notes should be played over certain chords, if there is a ‘leap’ in the melody it should be followed by a ‘step’ in the opposite direction (unless outlining an arpeggio). Real limiting stuff like that 
Still not a bad place to start because from there you can break the rules intentionally and be aware of the consequences.
I for some reason think the greats wrote their melodies much more from ‘within’ though. Paul McCartney and John Lennon gave us some of the best melodies ever too and they didn’t even know any theory in a traditional sense. They just knew what sounded good and did as much of that as they could. I know early on they had a policy where they wouldn’t write down their songs because they figured if they, the songwriters, couldn’t remember what they wrote and needed to write stuff down to remember it, that they couldn’t expect their listeners to remember it either lol! Very practical.
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it is like being handed a blank piece of paper and a pencil, and you just doodle. but what to doodle? that is like melody, whether its great or not. the moment you draw something that is your melody. i get it more theory can help create better structured sounds inside a tuning system, but the idea itself has to manifest otherwise it is more like reverse engineering the process of finding the melody by listening only to me playing random stuff on an instrument against a drone. this is where my minds pitch sense lacks as i don’t normally just think about pitches in my mind, and try to rearrange them without an instrument present. sure i could sing a scale or arpeggio in my mind, but i wouldn’t be able to rearrange the solfege syllables in a random order without the help of my instrument.
dont get me wrong i love a good treasure hunt, i could plug in my behringer td3 and have it pick some random patterns. and this would please my ears at some point because i would find a good pattern of notes that it gave me randomly, almost magically.
I’ve started songs almost every possible way under the sun. I find that my best (read: catchiest + most immediate) stuff happens when I start with a fun hook, usually something that would be a sing-along moment for a chorus, or perhaps a rhythmic hook.
But I’ve done all kinds of stuff with varying success–singing a melody idea or even a riff into into my phone while sitting at a red light, noodling on the guitar, catching a wind of inspiration while learning another song on the piano, intentionally thinking OK I need a fast song that would make an attention-grabbing opening track and starting with the end already in mind, whatever.
The least-efficient ways of writing for me is generally sitting with the guitar and noodling, trying to randomly come up with riffs. As soon as I stopped doing this I had way more success with writing (and finishing!) songs
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My “process” goes back to elementary school. Bored in class. Repeating short phrases to myself with a strong rhythm. (The first one I remember was "ro-tat-in’ ra-dar, du dunna du duh.) I would sing that to myself over and over. I didn’t think of this as songwriting, it was just “something to do.” But I did it a lot over the years and now it’s second nature.
Another thing I did was to make up new words (on the fly) to popular songs my big sister played on her record player.
Neither of these exercises focuses on the guitar. And another one that doesn’t is keeping one’s ear open for arresting phrases, puns, or great lines. I jot them down in a pocket notebook that goes with me everywhere.
On the guitar side, I play without thinking and if something catches my ear, I repeat it, tinker around with it. Maybe it will turn into an intro, a turnaround, a backing part, a main riff, maybe nothing at all.
A good groove is a great way to start a song.
There are a lot of ways to do it. And if you’re happy with your results, halleluiah. If not, well, mess around until something sticks, then stick with it until you’ve got a song. (Easier said than done, I know.) I think of it less as a process than a habit.
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I only play other people’s music, but I think that I know exactly how I’d write a song, and that would be starting with constraints, like the lyrics and general structure. For example, let’s say that I want something metal involving (say) uh… finding a burning a coven of witches, yeah, that should do. To get initial lyrics, I’d use something like OpenAI’s free ChatGPT with a query like this: “write a rap song about burning a coven of witches.” Then, I could clean up the lyrics, and start to write the music. Here is the starting point, I could see a song eventually emerging
Verse 1:
I’m on a mission, with a vision
To rid the world of a coven of witches
Their spells and curses, have caused much misery
But now it’s time for them to feel the heat
Chorus:
Burn, burn, burn the witches
Send them back to the pits of hell
Their dark magic, no longer thrives
As the flames consume their coven alive
Verse 2:
I won’t stop until they’re all gone
These witches have caused far too much harm
Their wicked ways, must come to an end
As I set fire to their coven, my friends
Chorus:
Burn, burn, burn the witches
Send them back to the pits of hell
Their dark magic, no longer thrives
As the flames consume their coven alive
Bridge:
I won’t rest, until they’re all ashes
Their evil deeds, no longer will flourish
I’ll make sure, they feel the pain
As I burn their coven, down in flames
Chorus:
Burn, burn, burn the witches
Send them back to the pits of hell
Their dark magic, no longer thrives
As the flames consume their coven alive
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