I don't know why I have this problem - stuck on the upstroke

Playing Technique
#1

I was working on a new picking excercise last night that takes place on the A string. Just an ascending sequence. I have an audio file that goes along with the book so I can hear the exercises being played. The guy said the tempo was 120 bpm.

When I was going slower I did not have a problem with the pick not passing through the string smoothly on the upstroke.

But when I played it at the tempo he was playing it at again I had problems with the pick getting kind of hung up or stuck on the upstroke. It doesn’t seem to want to pass through the string smoothly on the upstroke. The problem only shows itself as I try to pick faster.

I don’t know why I have this issue.

#2

Kind of reminds me on this topic:

Are you having the same issue here?

1 Like
#3

Have you tried the things suggested in your other thread?
Post a video. There can be many reasons for this problem.

#4

@357mag I linked an answer before, but I’ll mark up the pictures to make them more noticeable.

This is a neutral pick point. Notice how the pick is a right angle / 90° to my thumb.

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This is a positive pick point; the angle is now closer to 45°, and pretty much how I hold the pick.

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In my experience, the more positive pick point you have, the less the upstrokes will feel stuck. Please try this out and let me know of it makes sense / helps.

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Nearly two years of crosspicking no progress
HELP with picking resistance, knuckle dragging on strings when palm muting and upstroke escape motion
Am I holding the Pick at the wrong angle?
#5

It changes the sound though. I’m trying the positive pick point where the tip of the pick is leaning away from you and I’m trying to do my upstrokes with an outward motion away from the guitar. It appears to help but I don’t know if I like the feeling of holding the pick this way.

It kind of feels like I’m stringhopping with that outward and upwards motion with the pick. I hope it doesn’t become a problem.

#6

I’m not entirely sure about this. I’d recommend seeing what you natural pick motion is before trying to purposely curve it outwards.

It’s definitely a different feeling, but if you stick with it, you’ll probably get used to it within a few weeks.

I always had the feeling that string hopping isn’t as big of a problem as people think. When you push speed, I don’t think you’re able to string hop (my personal take on this).

#7

Somebody in another thread suggested pulling the pick outwards or upwards when doing the upstroke. He said if I do that getting stuck on the upstroke will be a thing of the past.

Actually I think when I pick from the wrist I am doing sort of a string hopping motion and I have always felt limited as far as getting speed. It just kind of feels like when I pick I’m kind of going down and up kinda bouncy, which I probably should not be doing.

It’s like I’ve noticed two ways I can pick from the wrist. One way is to dip in and out a little with my thumb and forefinger which is why I think I may be string hopping. The other way is to keep the thumb and forefinger straight and don’t dip in and out and just simply let the wrist swing back and forth.

But it’s hard to get the speed up. Sometimes I play better than other times. I’m not very consistent.

#8

I’m not sure about this outwards and upwards motion… This doesn’t sound quite right and sounds like you might be trying to micromanage every motion?
Can you make a video? We need to see how you are picking. What joints, motions etc.

#9

I’d still like to see a tremolo picking video from you @357mag, no fretting hand, just a single not on any string, going as fast as you can.

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#10

Hey @357mag!

You got great suggestions already, but I suspect you are going about this in an overly “rational” way, trying to plan out all the motions. I know it may sound paradoxical coming from us, but we found empirically that the most effective way for people to make progress is to just find out what works by “feel” and experimentation, and then do the analysis only later.

Once again, the first step is exactly what @gabrielthorn is suggesting: find the most comfortable way to do a fast tremolo on one string. It may not be the motion you were “planning” to learn, but if it works it will be your entry point for this kind of fast picky stuff.

In case you have not seen it already, this video shows pretty much exactly the process we recommend:

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#11

Actually I have already uploaded me picking a tremolo. It’s in another thread. I have had problems with the upstroke in my tremolo also. But I tried curving my hand outwards once and it seemed the tremolo sounded better. But it’s really hard to play licks like that.

I don’t think a guy will necessarily use his tremolo picking motion for regular licks.

I’ve simply had problems with the upstroke getting stuck or not being able to pass the pick through the string smoothly on both the downstroke and the upstroke.

If I’m getting stuck on an upstroke then I don’t think it hurts to analyze a little. Since I don’t have a teacher I have no choice but to experiment.

#12

You can’t believe how much you’ll use this motion … :slight_smile: Being open minded and not getting too analytical about your picking might do wonders and breakthroughs for your playing.

I’ve seen that tremolo video you’re referring to, it looked like a nice, sustainable elbow based tremolo motion, so I’d stick with that and try to play some DSX licks once it clicks for you. I’m constantly, all the time using my tremolo motion for everything I play above a certain tempo.

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#13

I’ve had problems with my tremolo though. And once again it’s been with the upstroke. Although I have not tried doing a tremolo with a positive pick grip yet.

#14

I don’t see/hear any issues with that tremolo motion.

#15

Hey amigos. The main reason for getting stuck on the upstroke for most is an inward motion toward the body of the guitar while bringing the pick up. 1st analyze the downward motion. It’s it perfectly straight down? Does it angle outward away from the body of the guitar? Inward toward the body of the guitar? There is no right or wrong here. Many pick down and slightly outward on the downstroke and then try to mirror the reverse on the upstroke by going upward and inward. Too much inward will have you fighting the string and getting stuck. To experiment try intentionally going down and in and then mirror it with up and out - this is just experimentation only. The comment about my remarks in an earlier thread about outward picking is not exactly in correct context. No offense taken - what was meant by that is essentially learning to correct the over pulling the pick inward too muck on the upstroke. For those that approach picking that the upward trajectory has to be an exact 180 as the downward trajectory - well… the answer is both yes and no, but what gets most is that upward trajectory going too much toward the body of the guitar. Analyze it and try to get it a bit more upward and outward (or at least not so much pulling inward as much). The angles involved are extremely small and sometimes not very perceptible, but once you get it, it will change your picking in profound ways. Good luck!

#16

And lose that death grip as well!

#17

Well you are the second person on here that has said when you perform the upstroke to pick the string in an outwards and or upwards motion toward the ceiling, or away from the body of the guitar.

#18

Hey 357, I’ve posted a lot on this prior. It’s a very common issue. Maybe a better way to describe is the relative motion between the string and the pick - instead of trajectory relative to the body of the guitar.

No matter how you angle the pick, on the downstroke, the string has to start somewhere on the pick and the string travels toward the tip. Doesn’t matter if you are picking “Dsx, Usx,” or otherwise. If in some way, shape, or form - you are not allowing the string to easily travel to the tip of the pick and beyond, you will get stuck. (No matter what angle you are going for on the beyond part). Applies both to downstroke and upstroke. We get it down pretty well for the downstroke but for many reasons, we don’t apply the same naturally on the upstroke. Analyze the pick motion to the string on the upstroke - find the trajectory that allows the string to easily move to the tip of the pick and beyond. They are 2 solid substances - we all know they don’t go through each other so the reality is the pick goes around the string - not through it. We don’t allow the pick to go around the string more so on the upstroke for many reasons so it’s just a matter of modifying your trajectory to utilize a different one that is somewhat unnatural, but easily adaptable once you find it. Good luck!

#19

Actually your previous explanation was easier to understand. I will experiment with this. Maybe I can continue to hold my pick the way I’ve been holding it all along.

I’ve seen that video where Troy is using a graphic to show how to do the upstroke escape motion. Seems to me if I could get that going, then my upstrokes would naturally be moving upward and outward and it may solve the problem.