I have been trying so hard and have made no progress!

Technique Critique
#16

I agree! The tremolo motion looks like a shallow DSX motion, wrist/elbow. The other motion is USX, with a lot of finger motion and a touch of forearm. A more down-the-strings angle would help a bit in identifying it, perhaps.

Elbow, not forearm, I believe!

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#17

You’re totally right, I still mix those two terms up! I think my brain sees the forearm move and I blurt out FOREARM

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#18

First one that comes to mind is “The Spirit Carries On” by Dream Theater. It starts at measure 85:

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#19

Awesome! I’ll give it a shot.

Here’s another video. I hope these views help.

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#20

It looks like you’re using a DWPS (downward pick slanting) form but the motion appears to be DSX (downstroke escape). Often DWPS form with DSX motion can run counter to each other and I know this is something that was tripping me up some time ago.

It looks like you’re onto something with the single string tremolo picking. As an experiment, try it with a more obvious UWPS (upward pick slanting) form, involving a more pronated forearm. This could include the thumb-side palm as a contact point as well or/instead of the pinky-side palm.

Not at all saying you should pick it his way, but it would be worth experimenting with some options to see if anything clicks.

3 Likes
#21

Yeah the single string tremolo speed is hiding somewhere. I get really good bursts when I least expect it. It’s very frustrating.

I’ve been watching troys instagram clip on upstroke and downstroke escape and how he switches between both so easily. When I try to do USX my whole hand turns. :rage:

#22

Hi @meepmeep - I’m a student too, so my word isn’t gold. Hang in there. :slight_smile:

I see a couple of things in your first video right off the bat, do any of these resonate? I haven’t looked at anything else.

  • your picking actually looks quite relaxed. Sure the motions are big, and perhaps there are a few things that aren’t consistent, but you have a starting point. I just watched the “quack quack” :stuck_out_tongue: vid and it looks decent.
  • your fretting hand, to me, looks like a far bigger area of concern. The fingers are rising way off the frets, and the timing is inconsistent. The little finger is curled under as well.

While this is mostly a picking forum, I believe working on your fretting will be far more impactful for you. Since the two hands need to work together as a unit, bringing your fretting up will give you a boost. Also, I believe that the evident mental tension you have with your fretting hand will feed into picking tension as well – your muscles need to constantly fight to get things to work, resulting in more effort.

My strong recommendation at the moment, given your first video: drop the right hand entirely, and get your fretting hand more relaxed, minimal motion, and even. There are many great drills out there, one I’ve been working on is the “spider walk” – e.g. I Did the "Spider Walk" for 30 Days (THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED!) - YouTube . Another monster player who discusses left hand is Rick Graham, eg Rick's Guitar School - Technique Class: Economy of Motion for the Left Hand - YouTube .

Cheers! jz

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#23

Hey Jz! Thanks for the advice. Yeah… I will not deny I have terrible technique. I suppose I never practiced it because I never knew how.

I will check out the recommendations!

#24

Cheers! Ping if you have questions about any drills you find, or post to the forum. Like everything, there are good and bad drills out there – some people shouldn’t be giving advice, and others should be heeded. For left hand, keep it even, effortless (as much as possible), and don’t push too hard, because that leads to “false technique”, i.e. technique that really is covering up other problems. Best wishes! jz

#25

Alright so things to work on.

  1. Left hand more relaxed. Minimal motion.
  2. Work on strengthening DSX. (UWPS form)

Also, @Johannes
Did you happen to take a look at the new video I posted? Is that a better “down the strings” view you suggested?

If anyone else wants to chime in on my struggle… please do! I need all the advice and help I can get. I’d love to get some insight/tips on left hand tension/ pushing too hard on the back of the neck with my thumb… and tense wrist.

Thanks to everyone so far for their advice.

#26

The jazz 3 picks always feel too small to me… even the so called large one. Maybe try a full size pick?

Also pay attention to your trailing edge and leading edge rotation angle. In vid two it looked like you were using a lot of rotation which might be causing your pick to move. Hard to say because the camera angle but worth considering.

In general try to find your easiest smoothest picking riff and try to just work that Temporarily. I call these my gateway riffs. If you can get that one riff really good then you can use it to branch out. This will help you gain confidence and maybe the next gateway riff will come a bit easier.

#27

Thanks @Tahoebrian5 I will try a full size pick. It’s been years since I’ve used one haha.

See the crease in my wrist? I can keep my wrist fairly straight until i put my pinky down. It’s the only finger I can’t keep up and as soon as it goes down, my wrist curls and it starts to hurt.

#28

You mention breathing. I have a hard time not holding my breath when I play faster stuff.

It further complicates the whole can’t relax thing.

#29

I hold my breath too. It’s a hard habit to break.

#30

I have no problems with that UNTIL I think about my breathing. It always ruins everything when it comes into my mind. Fortunately it’s not happening too often.

#31

Hi @meepmeep. Looking at the left hand photos, thanks for posting them.

  • I see the wrist crease, to me that might mean that the neck is too low. Try raising the neck a bit more, so there’s not as much of a bend.
  • As you get the neck in a more comfortable position, you’ll want your thumb to be more central, behind index and middle finger. This is not for squeezing the neck, it’s more for reference.
  • I see a lot of white on your fingertips, are you pressing down hard? You shouldn’t need to squeeze hard at all – try finding the minimal pressure you need.
  • I see a lot of palm under the neck, meaning your palm is facing up, and fingers curling around. Try repositioning the neck and hand so the palm is more facing you. The fingers should still curl.

Re breathing and relaxation, my personal experience, some things to think abuot: I used to be very tense when playing, all over, both for guitar and piano. The tension was as much mental as physical. I’m now working out some fundamental things with my guitar playing. :slight_smile: One thing I did, as odd as it sounds, was to simply sit with my guitar in playing position, left and right hands in position, and check out where the tension was. The moment I started playing, I had little pockets of tension everywhere. Then I thought about the source of it, and kept releasing it, and breathing into it. Pianists also have trouble with breath and tension, so I tried things like breathing for each downstroke and upstroke.

The above may seem completely useless in your quest to rock out :smiley: but I don’t think it is. I’ve found that relaxing has opened up my picking, letting me focus my picking. I’m still working on it, and on my left hand, so I don’t have anything impressive to show yet, but it feels like the right way.

Cheers! jz

#32

Hey @jzohrab thanks so much! My quest is not to rock out per say… my quest is to play cleanly with no pain and a fun speed.

I appreciate your careful critique. I do push down very hard… yes… I know. But when I try to play softly, I just can’t seem to do it. Adding it to my list of things to really focus on.

As for the position of the guitar… I always thought having the neck too high in a seated position was a bad habit, so I always try and keep the neck low. Back to square one! Will try to adjust the neck to a higher level.

The breathing suggestion sounds great and I can’t wait to apply it!

#33

haha, by “rock out” I meant to unleash your aggression on guitar, that’s my own bias coming through for you. Guitar is an easy instrument to have an adversarial relationship with.

With a more vertical palm, and curved fingers, you might be able to simply “place” a finger on the string to have it fret nicely. This may require some callouses though, if your fingertips are soft you might have to push harder to overcome the fleshy part at the fingertip. I play acoustic only, and had that trouble!

Re the long list of things – I hear you. It can be daunting and discouraging. I try to counter that by focusing on one thing at a time, for a set period of time (usually 25 mins, following the Pomodoro Technique ). Other things can wait, I just fill the current moment with that one thing.

Keep working on it, best wishes! z

#34

Keep in mind to stay close to the frets; finger 3 is pretty far from the fret in the last photo - as a result you’ll have to press too hard in order to avoid buzz. Once you’re doing that with one finger, the rest will join in and you end up with a vice grip. (Talking from experience;)

#35

Funny you pointed out my 3rd finger. It naturally angles towards my 2nd finger and i literally have to move it with my other hand. Also my index and pinky do not naturally curve like the others when placed on the frets like my middle and ring do.

I took a photo of my natural grip on electric and I am dumbfounded by how horrifying it is. I can’t believe I never took notice. Now I’m afraid to practice anything because it seems both my hands techniques are failing grade. So much pressure and tension in my left hand when I grip my electric. Nothing seems comfortable.