Ibanez Elastomer — least chirpy pick ever?

Gear
#57

When the Ultex Jazz III 2,0 is fresh out of the bag it has a rough drag specially against the the treble strings. To me it feels like very fine sand paper. This feeling goes away after a few strokes. When I play live I usually take like 10 brand new of these picks and play a few chords with all of them to break them in quickly to take that sand paper feel away. Maybe it’s more of a feel thing. It goes away quickly. But yes, there is also chirp. But the picks almost polishes itself as it wears and becomes smoother, but not devoid of chirp. When I record with them I like to use the ones that have some wear on them because the initial tone of the fresh pick it very present. Yet, I find the pick so comfortable that I wish dunlop would make this 2.0 shape with the amber ultex.

I believe I read in this forum some described the tone of the pick with with word shrapnel. Which seems to describe that initial sand paper feel it has.

All other black ultex picks that I have tried don’t have this characteristic. Not even the 1.5 jazz Petrucci model which comes new with a polished tip. Or the black flow ultex 2.0 and 3.0 picks that chirp a lot but they don’t have that initial rough feel.

In this video this person doesn’t even want to include the Jazz Ultex 2,0 pick in her shootout because from the get go she feels its just to bright. She just leaves it out of the picks she compares.

#58

Interesting thread.
I’m going to come home and record some of my picks and then compare them on their “chirpness”

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#59

Ok. I recorded tremolo with 13 picks, though most of them are similar. I didn’t notice much difference. Or should I say there are differences but they are more like my playing inconsistency rather than picks per se.
I looked at waveforms. Seems like highest level of “chirp” was with Dunlop 1.5mm (green one, with crocodile, beveled edges) and chinese 1.2mm (standard fender shape). Lowest level of chirp was with Dunlop Jazz III (XL series, white, with a tortoise), Dunlop 2.0mm (black, with crocodile, beveled edges) and Dunlop Ultex Sharp 1.4mm (with sharp tip).
Sorry, I don’t remember picks names…

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P.S. I lost one pick just before shooting ))

#60

Awesome!

Whats your opinion on the Ultex Jazz III 2.0 Black?

#61

too small for me ))
I mean my fingers are small too but I’m used to larger grip area. My choice now: standard fender shape and Clayton Stone.

As for ‘chirpness’ it wasn’t the best. Here is a pic - I isolated chirps and placed them in one waveform so I could compare them visually. 4th is the Ultex Jazz III 2.0 Black

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#62

As for other interesting models I liked the material of Clayton 1.9mm. It’s like… synthetic stone or something like that. Nice sensation when holding it. Though I don’t like to play with it )

#63

@Troy I think the fender heavy (tortoise shell Yngwies old pick of choice) is great on the high E and B strings, every other pick suffers from the chirp!
I noticed this when recording a lot.

#64

Let me be a sceptic for a while ) I believe that different picks have different chirps not because of material or shape per se, but because we hold them differently. I agree that different materials have different damping coefficient though I’m not sure they differ so drastically to influence ‘chirpness’ at a large scale.
You could decrease edge picking angle or to make larger motions to decrease chirp level.
And you could always switch to neck pickup after all ))

#65

Attack plays some role in this but by far, the overwhelming factors are related to material. Chicken Picks for example come in different shapes and sizes but are all made of a very hard, dense material, and are all similarly high chirpers no matter the shape. There is no way to un-chirp them by holding them differently.

The Dunlop Americana is also massive and dense and a total chirp machine:

#66

Ok, I take my words back. I forgot about chirp caused by a strike. Here difference in material is more than obvious. Though I’m not sure about chirp from the string which is already vibrating. The point is: you don’t need to transfer energy to a string that is already vibrating. In this case interaction is only fretting by pick and dissipating vibration energy. But the time of contact is short so I don’t think material matters much here, in this specific case.

Though since chirp consist of these two elements: pick material is matter, you convinced me )

Great video as always.

#67

Pick related topic is interesting. Ther’re a lot of things…

For example, I’ve found that when using edge picking chances are you don’t strike a string perpendicularly unless you use fingers movement (well, it’s kinda obvious now when you think about). But is it bad? From a theoretical point of view - yes, it should be. Inefficiency and stuff…
But I found that sometimes this ‘diagonal’ playing helps me to play some passages. Why? I don’t know. May be it’s idiosyncratic to me only.

Another point. I found that it’s easier for me to use picks with a sharp tip when playing 3nps stuff, while I’d prefer using rounded tip pick for 2nps DWPS (or should I say my imitating of it :slight_smile: )

#68

The existence of a chirp does not depend on where the energy comes from. If the pick frets the string and the string vibrates, chirp will happen regardless of whether the string was still or moving previously. In the case of a moving string, the chirp is a different pitch than the ringing note, and is no less audible to me than if the string was previously still.

The contact time is the same whether the string is already moving or not. If it’s long enough in one case, it’s long enough in the other.

#69

Agree
As I said earlier there’re at least two components. First - striking which gives a bit energy to a string, second - contact with already vibrating string. In the first case loudness totally depends on a pick characteristics. In the second - not so much. But since when playing we have both components present we would get a chirp regardles of string vibrating/not-vibrating. I do not deny it’s existence.

What I’m saying that second component (contact with already vibrating string) can’t be changed drastically by using different pick material. In that case materials must differ by many orders of magnitude which is not the case… unless you use soft rubber pick. vs steel pick
Oscillating guitar string is a high-Q system, to make difference materials must have veeery different dampening factor.

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#70

I think I understand what you are saying now. Thanks.

This the part I’m not getting. The pick whacks into the string in both cases. Maybe I just disagree that picking an already vibrating string doesn’t add energy. It seems obvious to me that it does.

It seems like your model for picking an already vibrating string is similar to playing slide: press and hold rather than pick through. Even then, though, doesn’t slide material impact tone?

Or maybe I’m misunderstanding again.

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#71

Sorry! English is not my native language and it’s hard for me to express my thoughts ((

In both cases pick adds some energy to a string - it’s a fact. Though in the case of already oscillating string it doesn’t matter much. String already has some amount of energy stored (that’s why it continues oscillating). When we touch the string with a pick that energy redistributes between two parts of the string. We are interested in the part between pick and bridge.
In that case the only way pick may influence string’s behavior is to absorb and dissipate that energy. Problem is: for most picks point of contact is quite small and materials are more or less hard, hence picks are not very effective in the terms of dampening string. It could be noticeable in the long run, but not for a short period.

There’s a period of time when pick is in contact with string while it still didn’t slip from pick. So, basically, there’s no much difference whether we hold it or pushing through. There was a thread of mine where I put waveforms of tremolo picking and analysed chirps. You could see that chirp time is quite short but it still noticable… Since oscillation frequency is high compared to pick’s speed you could assume it just pressed against the string.
Now come to think… may be that thread gave an idea to Troy for these researches?.. :slight_smile:

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#72

Tomorrow I’ll try to make some experiments… If I wouldn’t fall asleep after work.

P.S. Oh man… there’s one more factor. When pick scratches the string it works like a violin bow. It could suspend oscillations or amplify them depending on many factors… That picks stuff is not so easy

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#73

We discussed that earlier in this thread actually, but it it was hard to make any progress because almost all picks are made of the same materials (which have very similar friction coefficients).

Edit: I just ordered a Dunlop aluminium TeckPick. If sliding friction plays a role it should chirp even more than the BlueChip picks.

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#74

Aluminium… it sounds interesting. I should try to make metal pick too may be. It could be fun.

But not today. I’m totally exhausted -_-

#75

Recalled this video

#76

Okay, it’s certainly not ‘violin-like’ behavior. Vilolin string oscillates on a frequency of that string tuning (considering finger+fretboard) regardless of bow position. Bow position allows you to change tembre but not pitch.
Moreover, if I think about mechanics that allow a pick to produce some pitch while scratching… I can imagine some but they all kinda not what Troy mentioned in his video. That high-freq boost he showed in his video looks too wide to be a particular pitch. So my guess it’s just noise. Hence ‘scratching’ doesn’t add harmonics but rather add a noise.