Left hand fingering?

Playing Technique
#1

Hey guys, I’ve spent only a little time going through some of the CTC lessons and tutorials and it seems the majority of it is focused on picking techniques…or just overall right hand and arm movements.

Is there anywhere on the site the refers to left-hand fingering techniques?
I am seeing a lot of great scales and licks in some of the lessons here on CTC, but I’m noticing that Troy and some of the other pros are fingering the notes completely differently than how I would typically do it.
I tend to want to use my pinky as much as possible and I’ve noticed that a lot of the players on CTC don’t use their pinky in a lot of the same ways I might do it.
So I’m curious if they are using a better/smarter left hand fingering technique that I should try and learn for myself?

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#2

This maybe…

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#3

Whoa…this is super interesting.
Thanks for this!

#4

@Tom_Gilroy’s post is great and explores the absolute fastest speeds one can achieve on the guitar (left-hand wise).

When we talk about more “regular” shred speeds (say <= Paul Gilbert), then many fingerings are possible for the same thing.

So one possible answer is to just be aware of all the possible options and choose whatever feels most comfortable in each case :slight_smile:

For example, we recently discussed here whether people prefer to do whole-tone stretches as 1-2-4 or 1-3-4, and there were many different answers. I in particular do 1-2-4 on the low frets and 1-3-4 on the higher frets.

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#5

In a nutshell this is the most simple and succinct possible answer.

I’d only add to be aware of scale lengths, number of frets, and so on. For example if you are looking to cover Shawn’s playing with 24/22 fret 24.75" scale guitars (as he favored - see here: https://mabforum.proboards.com/thread/9843/history-evolution-shawn-lanes-guitars) you more or less need the underlying principles of Tom’s EDC post.

If you are covering Paul Gilbert or later Michael Angelo Batio, you would need different fingerings and a different approach. The reason being that you can “break” (probably a better word to use here, but…) Tom’s concept of efficient digital cycles by changing the guitar scale or sequence of notes. At a certain point applying 1-2-4 will not always work, so don’t take it as gospel. He even says this in the thread, but that simple bit of advice was absolutely buried.

You need all the fingerings, unfortunately. Not the answer you want, and it wasn’t the one I wanted, either. You can’t make “rules” for the left hand across different types of guitars, but you can if you stick to one type of guitar. If this confuses you, just stick to Tommo’s advice of trying all the fingerings. Always experiment.

Hope that helps.

Left hand reference from Eric Johnson seminar. Troy drops some great insight here, 5:00 - onwards.

#6

Continuing upon what @tommo and @guitarenthusiast have said:

I am not suggesting that the EDC concept I outlined is somehow a magical solution that will solve every fretting hand problem. It isn’t.

I posted that thread for you because I believe that the idea of the fretting sequence is extremely valuable. Tracking the sequence of digits used when fretting, and trying to find repeating substructures gives us a means to identify chunking possibilities and the specific points in a phrase which may prove problematic for the fretting hand, whether the repeating substructures we find are EDCs or not.

For example, the fretting sequences for many of the Paul Gilbert demonstrates in Intense Rock are simplified by utilizing the (1 3 4) combination for whole-whole shapes. That is not the most efficient combination and does not allow for the fastest possible execution, but the simplification to the fretting sequences aid in learning the chunks and may be helpful in maintaining good rhythm. At the speeds Paul plays those patterns, the issue of 3-4 inefficiency and the greater fatigue it causes are not very significant.

I do believe quite strongly that the ideas discussed in that thread are correct, and that the EDCs (and the other class of maximally efficient patterns, which more situational) are absolutely fundamental to playing at the fastest possible speeds.

Despite conventional wisdom, string changes or string skips, position shifts and stretches do not significantly limit fretting hand speed. Finger independence, while very valuable in many contexts, is not the source of fretting hand speed. Neither is conforming to the “1 finger per fret” method, or focusing on minimizing the amount the fingers lift away from the fretboard.

#7

Ultimately I think we’re on the same page.

Here’s the thing:

Where longer scale guitars are concerned, that 1-2-4 option goes out the window, especially where covering Paul’s licks are concerned. If you use 1-2-4 for some of his licks, you will be pulling notes sharp/flat like crazy. You’ll be playing very fast, but you won’t be playing the notes you think you’re playing. An example would be 8-10-12 on the 6th string; on a 24 fret/25.5" guitar. If I gun it as fast as possible (150-160 sextuplets), my hand starts pulling the notes into 9-10-12. If I switch to 1-3-4, it goes away. The posture is able to be maintained, and the notes stay as 8-10-12. I’ve tested this many times while recording.

My point is that you can’t adhere to EDC principles if the position you’re playing in doesn’t allow for 1-2-4 while staying in tune. This would be the only way I know to “break” the concept of an EDC.

Paul suffers from this on both Intense Rock videos. One of my alternate picking thread entries covers that. It doesn’t surprise me though, Paul always played different scale guitars and it might just be a force of habit or muscle memory. His old email list/database manager once described a room with guitar after guitar strewn about, of all brands, types, and scales. It’s not hard to imagine that Paul might be playing all sorts of guitars and bring fretting hand habits from one guitar to another, where they may not be as efficient.

I think if you wanted to play Paul’s stuff as fast as humanly possible, you’d likely have to get a similar shorter scale guitar that Shawn used which makes 1-2-4 possible without pulling notes sharp or flat.

In short I think @Tom_Gilroy we are in agreement, I would just make the addendum to your EDC post about utilizing a guitar similar to Shawn’s for his sort of playing. Based on my research and own experiencing in hitting high speeds, it seems a shorter scale length guitar is the recipe for hitting the fastest pitch-perfect speeds possible, precisely because it enables the usage of 1-2-4 where you would otherwise be forced to use 1-3-4 on longer scale instruments.

Maybe we can take this to private message @Tom_Gilroy. I’ve been meaning to get your feedback on some of this and I don’t know anyone besides you on the forum who pays as much attention to fretting hand strategies as I do. I am also aware of how insane things are now, so if the timing is off, perhaps in the future.

#8

I’d be happy to discuss anything you’d like to discuss. I’m pretty busy with work for the next week or so, so you might be waiting a little while for some replies, but don’t hesitate to contact me. I’ve had several forum members send me a few messages asking for my input on a problem they were trying to solve, I’m always happy to help if I can.

As for (1 2 3) for whole-whole, I don’t have any issue keeping in tune playing that shape, and all of my guitars have a 25.5" scale length. Could you show an example of a lick where you feel this is an issue?

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#9

For sure, let me organize my thoughts. I’ll be in touch via PM.

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