Looking for slow-mo video of dwps ascending licks

Playing Technique
#5

Ok @jzohrab this was fun to play around with today. I think I’m punching a bit beyond my weight here, but here’s an attempt at 190 bpm:

I’m not sure if this is a useful angle, I can move it if that helps…I noticed I seem to be doing better with the 4nps pattern than 6nps…maybe I’ve just practiced more of those over the years? So for the first bit of the video I’m just going “5678” on E and repeating on all higher strings. The last few seconds I flub your “568568” version. Definitely something I should practice more.

2 Likes
#6

I’m not sure if this is of any help but this is the six note per string ascending thing in your tabs. This is clearly a USX lick and I use a rotational USX here, but I also have some consistency issues with this style of lick. I can’t really understand why since this should be really straight forward. It has to do with getting enough power on the low strings I think.

EDIT: Oh I just realised you were looking for Slow-mo clips. Sorry for wasting you time.

What is it that you have problems with?

4 Likes
#7

It’s fine, all he has to do is open it up in YouTube and adjust the playback speed.

1 Like
#8

What speed is that? Could you guess? That’s insane good.

#9

Thanks man! This technique is very fast and I’m thankful to Troy for telling us about rotational motion. But the drawback for me is that it is actually very hard for me to use this technique to play slower than max tempo.

I’m not sure about the tempo but my guestimation is that it’s near sixtuplets at 160 which is the same as sixteens at 240.

1 Like
#10

Thanks for taking the time to post!

I usually don’t play this kind of shreddy lick, but it’s a good exercise to play as 16ths. You can make some decent fast scalar lines with 6 notes per string, it doesn’t have to be just ascending like these.

This is actually a great angle. It looks like you’re doing a kind of upward escape, and moving to the next strings pretty well. Does it feel good? I’m trying to use more wrist rather than elbow as you’re doing, b/c of elbow issues. Cheers!

#11

Holy smokes this is some banging playing, @qwertygitarr . Great stuff. I love the economy of motion, the evenness, the simple shifts to the higher strings. Did this kind of motion come naturally to you? And how did you work on it?

Yes, this is a really great example of exactly what I was looking for, I think I’m just wasting too much effort in my picking. Part of it is that I’m playing on an acoustic guitar and so thicker strings, more tension = harder to play fast with that same crisp sound. But perhaps I’m just making excuses. I wonder if there are acoustic players on here that could pull of a similar motion as you here, or if you have a steel string yourself.

Cheers and awesome playing again! jz

#12

Thanks for your kind words! Well, the rotational motion did come naturally and was fast right away. To apply it to the guitar took some time. The most important thing when working on it was to make sure that the motion always was rotational with no wrist involvement. As soon as my wrist gets involved, and it does at times when I get nervous and tense, the motion becomes a completely different motion.

Rotation is a very relaxed motion and with my quite straight wrist it doesn’t have that much weight behind it at times. So it is hard to transfer to acoustic guitar since that needs a little more power. But to be clear, this motion is very close to gypsy style, just less flexion in the wrist. The flexion in the wrist gives more power to the stroke but makes it impossible to palm mute so I haven’t invested any time into learning to play that way. Maybe you should try that yourself though.

#13

Regarding 6v4, I wonder if maybe my brain is just more used to chunking 4 nps than 6. Maybe also returning to the lick a second day would help.

Regarding elbow…yeah I’ve always felt rather inefficient with right hand movements and never seem to have a decent “wrist only” speed. When I intentionally omit elbow I seem to get really supinated or get a finger wiggle. I never experience elbow pain, but also rarely play more than 5 hrs a week.

In the video I notice that as I ascend strings the thumb/first finger start to uncurl…maybe it’d be more efficient to move the entirety of the arm instead. You can sort of see that in @qwertygitarr example too (wow that was smooth!) as the wrist angle seems to change.

#14

@_RH it’s likely a combination of you’re better at 4nps and the fact that 6nps is a longer run. It’s 12 more notes total down the strings so 4 would always be faster really. In my brain anyway.

#15

Damn that was fast! :joy::fire:

#16

Yes the thumb may have to straighten a bit to keep the pick angle somewhat the same. I guess this happens quite uncounsciously when using the wrist for tracking. We seem to have quite different apporches to string tracking and I have no idea what is best or more efficient but to me it feels best to keep the arm as steady as possible and use the wrist for tracking. But this inherently affects picking angle and therefore the thumb needs to compensate.

You’ve got a really cool elbow motion going that seem to be just as fast as rotation, if not faster. I was just thinking, since elbow motion is a DSX motion (meaning the pick clears the strings after downstrokes as oppose to USX where the pick clears after upstroke) these licks might feel even faster and cleaner if you start on an upstroke. That would turn these licks into DSX licks and are more suited to elbow. There are many players who have realised this on this forum and made great progress after that. Have you tried that?

#17

@qwertygitarr I just checked out the thread Qwertygitarr's picking motion , thanks for the breakdown of your style, very helpful. I’ve tried to get rotational working for me but didn’t have any consistency (yet), your tips on the reference points look like they’ll help. I’ll give that a shot. Cheers!

#18

Cool! There are of course a lot of variables that you can play with in order to get it working for you. And to be honest, a lot of the things I talk about in that old video has changed slightly through the years. So just keep trying and changing until something clicks for a moment. Then you know what to go for.

#19

Actually I watched it too, and the way you describe it is exactly how I have tried to describe it too. it’s not an obvious rotation but more of a twitch or gyration that occurs when you squeez your thumb and index fingers together slightly and also feel a slight (sometimes very slight) squeezing in the forearm muscles. It’s so slight that it can be mistaken for wrist translation if you view from head on.

I think what throws many people off who try and ultimately get discouraged is that they use too broad of a rotation and use the wrong muscles because it is often described as twisting a doorknob, but if you try purely based on that description you end up using the wrong muscles and too broad of a motion, which ends up not being that fast.

#20

Interesting description – is this on a video anywhere?

Rather than twisting a doorknob, I’ve heard of “turning the car keys”. It still feels like to broad a motion, especially when I see what @qwertygitarr is doing above.

#21

Not in those strict words but he does put his hand up to show that in the video of his you linked two posts up, and I have described it that way on this forum as well.

Your particular issue with it is the exact reason I tried to push for a more descriptive approach of the actual muscles used to do these motions. It’s one thing to describe what it looks like in broad terms, but another thing to describe what it should feel like when you are doing it correctly and the muscles engaged in making it happen. If you were to use the same muscles as turning a key, or doorknob, the motion becomes too broad and don’t see that working well for many. Although Eddy Van Halen’s tremolo picking may one notable exception,

The same concept that a personal trainer might do in a gym to ensure you are engaging the correct muscles for each exercise in order to work the correct muscle and get a more effective workout.

#22

Well it’s hard to accurately describing any motion in words but the general motion could be described that way. In practice it really doesn’t feel like turning a door knob though. It’s simply a much faster and, more importantly, LESS controlled motion. The motion should NOT feel like you are actively turning your arm back and forth, but should be more like letting the arm just go.

You could probably do this many ways but to me it is essential that you can do the motion with the arm in the air. If you can “shake” the arm fast in front of you, then you SHOULD be able to work it onto the guitar. If you can’t do the fast motion in the air, then maybe the that motion isn’t the most natural and there might be better motions for you.

#23

Yes that might be a good way to describe it. I’m not sure about he “squeeze” being essential to the motion though. I can shake with open hand just as well. But I guess we all have slightly different ways of doing this and that’s completely ok.

It’s good to get all kinds of different inputs since all people learn and understand concepts in different ways. I, for one, could never learn by learning about muscles used, but that doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t.

#24

The squeeze I feel at least tends to direct it a little more, as if you are holding the pick. In practice when you do try to apply it you will likely have a pick. It’s pretty subtle. It’s not essential though.