My Technique Critique Diary - Alternate Picking Assistance

Technique Critique
#27

From a quick scrolling through the various videos I see great progress!

Only comment I’d make is that it seems you have been practicing pretty much the same patterns in this whole 2-year journey. I have totally been there too - and sometimes I still find myself repeating stuff waay too much.

I think the logical next step for you is to introduce more variety! Whatever small adjustments you want to make at this point, they’ll be easier to find if you try some new patterns and licks, instead of keeping on going with the same ones.

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#28

I really appreciate that. I’m definitely guilty of sticking to familiar patterns. I’ll be taking that advice on board for sure!

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#29

Been there done that :smiley:

As some people in the Forum know I’ve been obsessed for years with practicing the ascending scale! (For some reason ascending has always felt harder for me).

It tends to get better when I practice… other things :smiley:

Because when I play “other things” I have more chances of discovering new (or slightly different) movements. When I practice the familiar thing, the forces of habit are hard to fight!

#30

Here’s another quick update.

I recently re-subbed to Masters in Mechanics and have been working through all the Pickslanting Primer content. I found Troy’s detailed explaination of USX Wrist Deviation to be extremely helpful, and have found all sorts of very subtle details that I would have ordinarily overlooked (such as how placing your arm on the contour of the body, with the elbow behind it, automatically places the wrist in a flexed posture.)

The video below just shows a few different picking motions I’ve been playing around with. First is DWPS USX. Second is UWPS DSX. Third is USX Wrist/Forearm, with fingers touching the body.

Adding the forearm component along with the anchored fingers really works for me but an issue I’m finding, regardless of which motion I make, is hitting the lower string. Even with DWPS USX, I struggle to clear the lower string when I pick up speed. I made this very obvious at the end of the video, when using Wrist and Forearm Rotation.

@Troy I was hoping you might be able to chime in. I’m wondering if there are any subtle details I’m overlooking?

It feels like this tendency to hit the lower string is holding me back a bit, as I become much more cautious at times.

Any thoughts welcome. :slight_smile:

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#31

Hey @kcyrowolf! Sorry for the delay in responding!

All these movements you are showing seem workable speed-wise and look fairly smooth and effortless - but I’m not 100% sure you are indeed achieving USX when you think you are. The DSX example at 0:13, instead, looks indeed like DSX.

It’s hard to tell because you are staying on the same string on all these examples. But following from my comment above, I think you can probably test this directly by playing some USX and DSX licks with your various motions, and see what works and what doesn’t. For USX licks anything with an even number of notes per string will work, for DSX you want an odd number of notes on the initial string, then even on all the others (assuming you start with a downstroke).

In general, I would not get too fixated on USX for the sake of USX. If DSX is the first to work properly, I’d use that to develop some fast & synchronised licks. Once you know the feeling of playing something fast & effortless with one motion it may become easier to unlock other motions, because you will know what it feels like to do it right!

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#32

This makes sense. I have become overly fixated on USX, which does not come naturally to me and forces me to use motions that I cannot perform at speed.

I haven’t updated in a while so here’s a quick clip focusing purely on DSX with some bursts and applying it to string changes. I can implement a bit of forearm rotation for changing strings on an upstroke, but it doesn’t feel a smooth as my single string motion yet. Particularly the Gilbert asc/desc lick, which I feel is because the string changes are too frequent for me to manage at speed currently.

What I’ve had to break myself away from is the idea of muting with the pinky-side palm, as this seems to be more common in USX picking (unless I’m missing something?). Muting like this seems to pull me away from the DSX motions that are currently working so well for me, so I’m unsure on how to go about developing a muting technique that compliment my current picking motion.

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#33

Cool I’m glad you decided to focus on your strengths for a while :slight_smile: Cool vibrato as well \m/

In particular, I think your DSX tremolo [first 5 secs or so] was very good.

In the examples with fretting, however, I get the impression that you are holding back - the motion is not nearly as smooth/fast as the initial tremolo example.

So if I you asked me some “homework” based on this latest video, I’d suggest to try and play some DSX licks [strictly only downstroke string changes] with the level of picking speed and smoothness shown in the first 5 secs of the video.

Maybe you can start with groupings of 2~4 strings to remove the string tracking variable, we can worry about that later.

As usual, don’t worry if the first attempts are a bit sloppy or unsynchronised. We’re looking for a “trying to ride a bike for the first time” kind of thing :slight_smile: I wouldn’t even use the metronome, it’s just a distraction at this stage.

Regarding the muting, I think you are right that your hand position is not suited for the pinky side muting thingy (technical term!) But you can probably get good results by using these contact points - I think that’s what Di Meola does with his “lightly supinated” setup, and that’s also what I used for muting when playing DSX:

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#34

PS: I should also add that, for this type of motor learning task (learning picking motions that you can’t already do), we do not recommend the “short bursts” approach.

Attempting the motion for a decent length of time [let’s say something arbitrary like “2 bars”], and using a realistic speed, seems the way to go.

So in your case I’d once again recommend getting some fast DSX licks going as a first step. To add the occasional upstroke string change, you’d use the same process: try a fast lick which is mostly DSX but has a couple of upstroke changes here and there.

You will likely find that there is no need to do a drastic hand/arm setup shift to get those upstrokes to escape.

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#35

Thanks for taking the time to write this @tommo (and for drawing on your own hand! True commitment to the cause! :joy:) .

I will experiment with those muting points and put some more focus into smooth DSX string changes.

One other issue which I have not found a solution to yet is fast picking on bottom E string. With my current form, the thumb side of my palm ends up getting shunted off the plane of the strings, to rest on the body of the guitar (this is exaggerated further by the tune-o-matic bridge on my Gibson). Attempting the lift the thumb/palm off the body kills any speed or momentum, as it seems to be an integral pivot point for my picking.

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#36

Ha, that is interesting, I’ve been working on the exact same thing in the last few days!

Yes - I also found that resting on the guitar body helps with DSX picking on the low E. On the other strings, we potentially have the rest-stroke on the upstroke to “stabilize” things. I certainly use the rest stroke a lot. Having a contact point on the body for me has the same stabilising effect, so that DSX picking on the low E does not feel as “floaty”.

What you are doing looks similar to what John McLaughlin does - so I don’t think it’s “wrong”. What problems does it create?

#43

It just feels a bit constricted due to what I believe is a more radial-leaning wrist posture when I reach the low E. Regardless of the theory, it feels inconsistent with the sensation I experience across the other strings.

When you mention rest strokes, could this be a way of achieving a similar DSX motion, without the constant thumb/palm contact I have going on? I only ask this because I haven’t consciously employed rest stokes in my DSX picking.

#44

What kind of electric guitar is that? The top looks awesome.

#45

Thanks! It’s a Gibson ES336. :slightly_smiling_face:

#46

I just decided to film what I believe is my USX wrist/forearm rotation motion up close. I have to say this feels the most comfortable, even if I can’t yet achieve the speeds that DSX elbow/wrist offers me from the get-go.

The motions are pretty wide and I can see the pick riding up on the next highest string on the downstrokes, though the upstrokes are clearly escaping. For palm muting this just feels best for me and I wonder if continued experimentation may yield some results as the motions become more refined?

The reason I am only picking at this speed is to avoid my tendency for the thumb/index finger to get involved. This makes me wonder if it would be wise to spend a bit more time becoming familiar with the subtleties of this form without the metronome before pushing for speed.

Any thoughts on this would be welcome.

PS. @tommo I’m not disregarding your wise advice on my DSX picking!! :joy:

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#47

@kcyrowolf Do you feel this is a detractor for you? I feel like at the speed you’re playing in the video, my fingers are more involved, and as I near the top end of my speed, they just naturally stop moving as much (at least from what I perceive).

#48

Honestly, while it does absolutely have visible USX it also seems to feature a bit of DSX so, analyzing it and judging by the speeds you’re showing here, I’d guess it’s probably closer to the type of motion you’d use to play some double escape licks and/or cross picking.

I’d wager even, that if you were ‘forced’ to go to warp speed trying to play this way, you’d likely veer towards whatever in-baked single escape motion you might already have, or find you’re running into a speed limit. No bad thing, what you’re doing appears perfectly acceptable to my amateur analysis but just something to consider, depending on what kind of licks you’re looking to play.

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#49

Absolutely. As the speed increases using this form/motion, I find my thumb/index move more, with increasingly larger movements. This basically ends in a trainwreck, with missed pick strokes and hitting surrounding strings.

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#50

I was thinking the same :slight_smile:

It appears that the pick “wants” to do a bit of DSX at the end of (most?) pickstrokes. So this may not be the motion you think it is!

The experimental test is always the same: see if you can speed up this motion on an un-mistakably USX lick - like the pentatonic stuff you were doing here. If it works… it works :smiley:

I think you’ll have better results by trying something different - like a 3 finger grip or something (just a random idea to mix things up).

#51

I had a go with a ham-fisted three finger grip. While feeling strange and unrefined, it also feels like my grip on the pick and the motion is more controlled/solid.

Having said that, you can still see the pick moving away from the body slightly. I think this is a baked-in 902/802 motion that I need to be aware of, as it’s obviously not needed when picking USX.

(I’m guessing this 902/802 motion would be more at home in DBX territory.)

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#52

Thanks for giving this a shot :slight_smile:

Can you show us what happens when you do the tremolo at full speed with this motion?

What you are looking for is something as smooth and fast as your DSX

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