oh, shall we step out side lol
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I agree it’s such a minor thing, n i prefer soloing in major. Your video editing is so fast tho, hire this man.
Oh my quality is very poor though. I started messing with a video editor less than 2 weeks ago. Dude it is SUPER easy to make something like I just did. I have almost no clue what I’m doing lol! Not sure if you are Mac or PC but I’m PC and the program I used was called Clip Champ - free as long as you create an Microsoft account, which is also free. It’s really fun you should try it. I’d seriously love to see what you’re capable of given you’ve already made one of the best videos anyone’s ever posted on here using just your phone lol!
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it’s not a phone i had a small camera in my mouth. You know proper professionalism.
I never edit videos so if it’s that fast i’ll check it out. 
Sounds like innovation to me. I almost fell on the floor laughing at the parts where you were narrating with the phone in your mouth lol!
And yeah the editing to get the non pro level I’m getting…extremely simple. Any questions, ask google. Someone has likely made a video of how to do the thing you want to do. Drag/drop/point/click interface is pretty intuitive too. If I can do it, probably most people can do it.
Just remember when you’re winning awards at the independent film festivals that it was me who gave you the push you needed 
Whether or not that push contained incidental forearm rotation…we’ll likely disagree on 
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lol you bitch and I will! I’ll say, I just wanna thank, troy, tommo n joe, without them i’d just be another nutter lol
And the Aliens btw don’t wana get abducted…
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Make sure you do it quickly though. I hear if you don’t say the thanks fast enough they yank you off the stage lol
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Now I can see that video 
Troy literally said it at 3:13 another motion. It’s forarm rotation. I think Troy is fully aware of it, but is being diplomatic as it’s such a small movement that you can’t easily judge one way or the other. It’s forarm rotation allowing tracking of the strings and facilitating the entire thing.
Oh you renewed your membership? nice!
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Now I have the moon in my profile too 
Do you still disagree with the forarm wiggle? I mean, you proved it, Troy hinted at it…
I honestly think it’s there, but If you’ve seen other examples in the cdc videos i want to see them. Obviously I’m ignorent of a load of stuff.
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To me, all I proved is that Zakk has 2 different motions. One with a visible wiggle/rotation (an no visible elbow movement), and another that’s the exact opposite - visible elbow motion, no visible rotation. In the side-by-side video I made, are you saying both those motions looks like they have the same to you? To me, they don’t. I see zero in the left, typical gypsy in the right.
That Zakk video of Troy’s that you’ve just now seen is the only one I can think of directly on the platform that talks about this. Like I said before about Zakk, the only stuff I’ve watched where I looked at his technique was later in his career and to me, that looked like elbow. Since I saw the video where Troy had specifically devoted it to Zakk’s Elbow motion, I’d mentally blanket classified Zakk as an elbow player. Clearly, I was wrong about that. I have no issue admitting when I’m wrong because that’s where we learn. He does have a motion where it’s traditional forearm rotation. Now I know! BUT… I’m not talking about that one though, in the majority of this thread, I’m talking about the other one.
Troy mentioned in his video, conclusively, that he didn’t really know what was going on with the motion. Yes, he mentioned forearm rotation as a possibility, but if it was that simple he would have leaned towards that. He also mentioned shoulder as a possibility. The fact that Troy has one of the world’s best rotational mechanics and is acutely aware of joint motions, he can mimic Zakk and doesn’t perceive rotation when he does the motion…to me that’s enough to say “if rotation is there, it’s so minimal that it’s not what’s causing the escape”. Or maybe better yet, it’s not anything we should care about since it’s not a clear response of what we’re telling our body to do.
Here’s Troy’s Zakk impersonation:
Are you saying you see rotation there??? Keep your eye on the tendon visible near his wrist. I don’t see it move.
If I see anything happening there that is not elbow, I see a little bit of wrist flexion. That’s a much more likely cause of an upstroke escape than the forearm rotation that I don’t see. I assume you are still seeing rotation, and that’s why we keep talking in circles. If 2 people stare at a shade of blue-ish green and one only sees green and the other sees blue, they’ll continue to point and talk and disagree lol! Which is why I’ve asked to call a truce 
There have actually been numerous posts about Elbow and USX capabilities here.
I think Zakk’s early technique was mainly reverse dart thrower wrist motion, where you have the “flexed” posture but mainly the hand goes back and forth along a wrist path. The forearm looks mostly stationary:
Zakk’s later technique I think is elbow + rotator cuff. It’s really hard to say what’s going on from his footage but when you look at it up close like this some things become clearer:
If there is forearm rotation, the pick should appear to rotate and change its pickslant. However you can see in slow motion the pick is escaping quite a bit, and there is really no change in pickslant. Even if there is some, there’s no way enough to create the large escape that we see. So I think the lifting is the rotator cuff.
It’s possible the escape is dart thrower wrist, operating alongside elbow. But I really don’t see enough forearm happening here to cause these relatively large motions.
Yes, if the forarm was fixed we’d not be able to track the strings. If Troys forarm in that video was totally fixed in place he’d not be able to do that movement.
We’re not talking in circles tho because it’s a legit movement that without it would not allow the entire technique.
Elbow plus rotator cuff is enough to trace any string tracking path.
I just say talking in circles because the overall theme is:
Whammy: I see rotation! It’s there because blah blah blah
Joe: I don’t! It’s not there because blah blah blah
lol! Which is why again I ask for a truce. I know what I think I see, you know what you think you see. Neither of us will budge (well, I did a little because I posted a clip where his forearm rotated some, clearly. I never saw that from him before)
Not if you’re tracking the strings, you can even see it in your forarm. Also it’s a bit unfair to just use one string. Using multiple strings if the fundamental issue right.
Though in that
he is using forarm rotation without a doubt. Instead up just up n down his index has a curve to it.
I think the forarm is utterly integral to the overall mechanic, without it you won’t be shredding to say the least with this style. You’re not going to be using your shoulder rotation to track the stings, the leaver is so accentuated it’s uncontrollable. I’m sure it’s used, no doubt, but same for the forarm, and even more so as it’s a second degree less if you understand, it’s one joint out of the picture. When I look at Zakk, I see major forarm rotation, even tho it’s bending into other movements. Perhaps I need to practice it more, tho the rotor cuff n pec are not easy to control, I really don’t see how you can do that combo and be as accurate as zakk is without forarm rotation facilitating the entire thing. You can’t be tense when soloing, you need to be loose, the rotor cuff pec elbow move is… at least not in my move set right now, I’m going to practice it because I can feel it… but The forarm rotation literally gives you a high definition control without doing that…
I don’t think either joints have enough fine motor movement to be useful for anything else than tracking, so as you already said there is an extra movement, think its the forarm.
You can see his veins on his forarm going back n fourth
Understanding the academic stuff is all well and good but the point is to use that knowledge to generate some type of practical action plan.
The Zakk Wylde thing I didn’t learn, I just noticed I do it. Practically speaking if the goal is to try and learn it or something similar, I can tell you the Zakk thing doesn’t feel anything like forearm motion. There does not feel like an arm rotation happening on each note, even if it can be shown that there is. Trying to zero in on a “wiggle” sensation the way you would for a forearm technique I don’t think that will work. Instead there’s a “whole arm” feeling that I don’t get with forearm.
I should also point out that I’m not good at the really fast DSX elbow that most people seem to be able to do. In my case, I can’t even tell where the elbow-only axis is. Because when I move what feels like “the elbow”, the arm goes down toward the guitar body (i.e. trapped downstroke) which is obviously not pure elbow. There is no point I can locate by feel where I think, aha, that’s just the elbow and it’s doing the DSX thing that everyone else does.
That all makes sense to me. As far as I know, I cannot do the Zakk thing. I can do a forearm rotation (which likely is a wrist blend) and of course my default DSX elbow. Trying to blend those 2 things together seems impossible to me lol! Which is just one more reason I don’t think there’s any rotation in the Zakk elbow motion.
I get the action plan point - it would be great (I think) if we could say “Hey all you DSX elbow people, just do this slight tweak on what you already know and boom! You’ve got a USX capable elbow motion”. Think how many people that would make happy. That’s why I even care enough to have this (for me, hopefully for him too, likely not for anyone else reading) fun little “argument” with @WhammyStarScream. I’m afraid his claims of Zakk having rotation are going to give other elbow players the wrong idea and have them bark up a tree that leads to nowhere. To me doing any amount of forearm wiggle while my elbow hinges back and forth is harder to fathom than brushing your teeth while combing your hair. But hey maybe someone out there is doing it.
(that’s the cue for Whammy to say “There is…it’s Zakk!!!” lol!!!)
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Different strokes different blokes 
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