I do get what you are saying about using special tools to try fix the problem.
Ideally I don’t want to use this type of pick I just cannot find a solution to the problem and it really affects my ability to play the most simple of things.
Perhaps the fact I’m so aware of it is a problem in itself. Maybe if I don’t keep trying to readjust the pick and let it rotate a little or allow the thumb to shift forward if it wants to and only adjust the pick if it’s in danger of coming out of my hand or rotating to the point of not being able to play, maybe I’ll get used to playing with the pick being rotated…? I’m really surprised that there is very little information about this online at all. I can’t be doing anything too wrong with how I hold the pick… As I can see from here people hold in many different ways but regardless of which way you hold it, the strings causing resistance is still going to make the pick move unless you grip it tight enough…
So I’ve been looking into potential fixes for this issue. It seems worse after I play for a while so it’s likely my hands are getting a bit sweaty or oily which makes the problem worse. I really don’t think there is an issue with how I hold the pick as such as I see many people do it in a variety of ways and possibly just get used to readjusting the pick if needed…? This is kind of difficult if the hands get sweaty and the pick is constantly moving just after a few notes.
Anyway, I came across these which might be worth checking out for anyone looking for a solution
I’ve not tried them myself yet. I’m still waiting for my sticky grip guitar picks to arrive but the monster grips might be good because if they work then I can just use the picks I normally use.
I have suffered this for SOOOOOOOOO long. For me the point of the pick wants to rotate to be inline with my trigger finger. I think that is backwards from what you are saying, but no less annoying. I instinctively try to rotate my wrist to match until my index finger actually catches on a string. Arrgh!
This alone probably explains why I’ve been a finger style player most of my life. I hate strumming, and I wish Troy would do a strumming primer. Pretty please? With sugar on top? It’s a thing for a significant number of us.
Ok… So that said, I was looking at the examples of pick grips @Troy posted. I noticed that the one for the gypsy jazz player (sorry, I can’t remember his name), he is holding the pick so that the point is practically inline with his thumb.
It is so radical. I’ve never seen anything like it. But I’m always fighting to keep the pick from rotating in the opposite direction I thought, “what the heck, give it a try.”
There was a dramatic improvement in strumming feel and pick “security”. I play with JazzIII XLs with a fairly sharp point that seems to hate strumming but love lead lines. With the pick aggressively biased towards my thumb the strumming became much smoother and more natural.
Now, like all these mechanical things, it isn’t a silver bullet. I don’t quite know how to pick single lines with the pick in that position. I find myself bringing the point of the pick more perpendicular to my thumb to do lines and then having a blowout when I try to strum. It is a subtle amount of rotation, but enough to start the downward spiral again. I need to figure out how to slightly adjust the orientation of the point of the pick when changing from strumming to individual notes; but with the strumming sorted it feels like a shorter trip to getting the single lines working with this pick orientation.
In any case, I thought I would share. Maybe for some of you who have the opposite problem you may want to try to align the point of the pick so that it is practically inline with your index finger. Even if that seems radical and weird, it’s worth a shot. After all, everything I’m learning on this site about picking seems radical and weird.
I’m all for experimentation but I wouldn’t randomly starting pointing the pick different ways in your grip unless the reasons for doing so actually apply to you. The cases where we know that great players use what I’m calling a “positive” pick point, i.e. toward the fingernail, are the flexed wrist orientation, and also the supinated arm position with a three-finger / middle-finger pick grip. Steve Morse and Albert Lee are great examples of players who use a three-finger grip with a positive point.
In all these cases, what the positive pick point does is helps satisfy the main requirement of smooth pick attack, i.e. that the pick is arrangd 90 degrees to its path of motion. This causes it to hit the strings symmetricaly on the upstroke and downstroke for even, or at least sort of even, sound. Whether or not you choose to do this has to do with the direction you’re trying to move the pick and the arrangement of everything upstream from the pick that also changes its orientation.
If you’ve found that this orientation sometimes produces smooth attack and other times doesn’t product smooth attack, the principal question to ask is what is the direction the pick is moving? Is it the same in both cases or different? If it’s different, than maybe the same pick attack won’t work for both cases.
Thanks @Troy! Clear as mud. 
Seriously, I’m more confused than before. To begin with, “positive” pick point is “toward the fingernail”. Which fingernail? My thumbnail or the nail on my index finger?
Second, are you talking strumming or picking? I thought the images you posted were of strumming. Is “pick attack” a reference to strumming?
Last, I think of “attack” as affecting subtle dynamics and tone in your picking of single lines. I don’t think of it as a concept applicable to strumming. I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing. Obviously, you are free to say you are exclusively focussed on pick grip as it relates to picking single notes, or that a pick rotating in your grip is just not something you address. But if you are addressing the tendency of the pick to want to rotate in our hands, I want to make sure I understand your meaning.
That said, there is nothing subtle about the problem I’m having, and apparently others. There seems to be several threads on this topic, so I don’t think I’m alone. Just for the sake of completeness, here are some details of what I’m working with:
The way I hold my pick (or at least I believe this is true --I don’t have a way of really knowing) is resting pretty much directly centered on the last joint of the index finger. The pad of my thumb is directly above the joint. My wrist is slightly supinated and flexed. Slightly, no flamingo pick here. The pick is downward slanted between 35 and 40 degrees and rotated about 30 degrees relative the the fret plane and string travel respectively.
Picking lines, the pick generally stays in place. However, when strumming, the pick tends to rotate in my grip so that the point eventually points in line with my index finger and into my palm. Quickly, as in a just a couple of bars of strumming Gypsy Jazz “le pompe” at tempo. Obviously it is rotating on the downstroke.
This is not a trivial problem. It has plagued me for nearly 40 years of playing. Am I hitting it at too much on edge forcing the point to want to move? Should I be adjusting pick angle on the fly when I switch from picking to strumming? Should I try to introduce Radial Deviation to present a flatter face to the strings? If so, is there video of anyone changing that angle when switching from picking to strumming? Am I not gripping the pick properly? Should I be gripping it in such a way as to resist rotation? Should it be wedged in somehow? Am I pointing it too far towards the wrist or too far away from the wrist? Should I re-train my hand to hold the pick in a clenched fist of fury so it doesn’t move?
I feel like pointing the pick away from my wrist has helped some, but it is very early to tell. Are you saying you don’t recommend trying that?
Again, just trying to understand and solve a problem.
This problem still plagues me.
I’ve noticed when I’m doing all downstrokes, like for metal rhythm, the pick point rotates towards the bridge and continues to rotate until I have to stop and adjust it.
Is it normal that it would rotate in this direction with all downstrokes? I really can’t figure this problem out.
Yep, have the same problem… though I’m not considering it as a problem much. After some time of playing my pick leaning angle changes and the tip point to a head a bit. Usually it finds some position it likes and stops there, and I continue to play with that position.
Just a small addition.
A few years ago I ordered a sample collection that included one of each Jazz III type. I found the MAX GRIP versions were much more difficult to holds securely. My suspicion is that the texturing results in my skin contacting the pick only at the tops of the grooves, and results in lower contact area between my skin and the pick, and thus reducing friction.
Maybe it might be worth trying another version?
I tried the Max Grip jazz III and also the Max Grip standard picks and found they were much harder to keep grip of, ironically. I think it’s the texture and if you sweat at all or hands get oily, that creates a problem.
I’m currently trying out Ibanez sand grip picks, which have a sort of sand paper texture and although I’ve found these great for lead playing, they don’t tend to move on me much, when I’m playing rhythm, in particular all downstrokes, they still rotate. I wouldn’t mind if it were just a little bit of rotation that I could still play with, like when I arpeggiate chords, the picks always rotate to point towards the headstock… I’ve no idea why but I can still play like this. But when it rotates so the tip is pointing towards the bridge I have to stop and adjust the pick.
What does your grip look like? I used to have more problem with the pick moving around in my hand when I held it using the pad of my index finger (together with the thumb). Have you tried using more of the side of the index finger?
I use the side of the index finger, the sort of trigger grip. For lead and some metal rhythms the index finger would be quite curled so it would go straight across the back of the pick horizontally, it’s a little more of a relaxed curl when strumming or arpeggiating chords. I found this gave me the most stability, especially for lead playing. I’ve been experimenting with grips over the last few months and I think this one may suit me best.
I converted to a jazz size pick and thickness years ago and used jazz3 for a while but they always slipped around in my grip, also tested various versions of the jazz3 but to no avail, even tried using thin layer of shoe goo which stopped the slippage but I didn’t like this solution.
I have a light grip and all the Jazz3 I tried are the wrong pick for me… so I stopped fighting them and moved on.
Thru my quest now use the Graph-tech Tusq teardrop picks and for me they do not move at all ever and I really like them for all applications. No mods needed.
I found the Graph-tech Tusq raised logos sits right in the sweet spot of the grip and stays there even if I try different positions. My grip stays relaxed and light and with all the new experimenting I’ve started with CtC I don’t ever have to think about pick slipping or readjusting.
That’s great you found your solution. I’m still battling this problem. I’ve managed to sort it out for lead playing, I’m not even sure how I did it, well, I am using dunlop tortex picks at the moment and for lead playing it seems to suit me. However, there are other techniques such as simple chord arpeggiation where the pick point automatically goes positive. Now I know that pick point can change based on certain factors, but I believe it’s far more positive than it should be. I’m basically picking with the side of the pick. Also with downstrokes, the pick point goes negative which I end up having to adjust regularly when playing, which means having to stop for a second to do so. Pain in my ass!
For what it’s worth, I wanted just to check back in to say that I bought a pack of Mojo Grips and they have made a HUGE difference. I hate solving problems with gear, and worse solving them with non-standard gear; but I have to admit that these little rubber sleeve have solved 90% of my pick slipping/dancing out of my hand problem.
Thats great that it’s solved issues for you!
I’m a little hesitant and the only real reason is because I know from the primer, that the pick point can change based on hand positioning and probably some other factors.
For me, for example, when I arpeggiate chords, I have my hand in a different position to lead playing, and in this position, the pick point changes, quite a bit actually. After a lot of trying different picks and different grips, I’ve come to realise it’s most likely due to hand position/wrist orientation. If I were to use a pick that could not slip, like the sticky grips from guitar moose, picking becomes much harder as the down and up strokes don’t feel even or smooth.
So for now, I’m not really focusing on pick point or attempting to change it in any way.
Ok, now I got it what you guys meant. I started to experiment with pick angle, so I chose another angle and… it rotates to its usual position. I don’t know whether it’s a good thing or a bad one. From one point of view it means that my usual position is pretty stable. On the other hand, how am I supposed to experiment with pick angles if my pick is resisting?
The only way I see it is to change my hand position as well which I don’t want to do to.
Do you still have the issue with normal picks?
I wish I had the answer, but I’m still experimenting myself.
I made a discovery by accident today. While trying to figure something else out, I made a slight adjustment to the pad side grip and it seemed to help stabilise it a little. It’s not perfect, and certain picking motions (inside picking!) will cause my pick point to move a little which then makes picking on one string hard as the upstrokes catch.
I probably use more edge picking than I should be, which means my muting of string noise isn’t the best. However, any time I’ve tried to lower my hand, it tends to migrate back to my usual position. So for now I think I’ll stick with it and can always use tips of the fretting hand fingers to help mute adjacent strings.
That’s gone a bit off topic! But I guess experimenting with grip can help, or at least I think it can… I’ve only just made a discovery, accidentally and not had much time to practice with it yet. It’s difficult to describe, but what I wrote down for myself was “slightly more pad than side, straight(ish) index finger” I realise that will help no one lol
I don’t know if you’ve tried this but I like to press the rounded corner of the pick into the crease of my index finger. I find this makes the pick much more stable as it can’t really rotate anywhere. I hold the pick with the tip of my thumb but this also works with the more traditional flat thumb “trigger” grip. Obviously this is a very pick-dependant approach. I’m not sure it would work as well for a standard-sized Jazz 3.
Hey, I’ve not tried this grip before, but I do remember trying the trigger style grip and although I liked it for lead playing, I found some issues with rhythm playing and arpeggiating chords. I found with the trigger grip, it was harder to get the other fingers away from the strings.
A couple of things I’m trying at the moment. I’m trying to lower my entire hand as I feel I’m not able to effectively mute string nose as not enough of the hand is in contact with the lower strings. I’m a little unsure if I should be starting with speed on this as I find the hand will tend to migrate back to where it usually is if I do…
I’m also finding, when I attempt to play fast, the pick gets chocked up to the point that if I keep going, there is no pick left to pick with, now it’s just the index finger and thumb in contact with the strings.