Playing sitting vs. standing

Playing Technique
#1

I’m guessing this topic may have come up on a few occasions already, but wasn’t sure what to search for in the forum to see if there might be an old thread about this already.

I’ve noticed that just about everything I’ve been working on from the CTC courses are much harder to play standing up…mainly because I learn and practice these things while sitting down.
So what sort of things are you guys doing about this?

Should I just practice everything standing up?
Should I shorten my strap when standing?
…any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

#2

I’ve started playing standing up this March, when I’ve realised I can’t do anything that way I can do while sitting. I’d say I could play comfortably after a month while standing, and I spend time playing this way every day. I did not shorten my strap to an extreme degree, it’s not super low, but it’s not short at all. Of course there are some extreme stretches and things I would not attempt to play this way, but I don’t really care about it.

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#3

I have my strap reeeaaaally short, so when I’m sitting down I have the guitar in “classical” position but it’s not even touching my leg. Same position as when I’m standing.

#4

Hi, I did a lot of looking into the two sitting down positions and started a lengthy thread on it.

In my personal situation both sitting down positions arn’t very ergonomic, and the lesser of two evils to me in the casual position (over right leg) as classical position you have to twist your torso to the left and that gives me lower back pain In a short time.

Standing is the most ergonomic position but it’s not that practical for learning ( I sit at my pc).

I think the answer is what works for you. Are you ever going to perform live? If yes then it’s important to play as much as you can standing up. Neither of the sitting positions put the guitar In the same position as when you are standing up but some will argue the classical position is closer to it than the casual position.

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#5

I have a theory. I observed a lot of people that are mostly sitting that have a DSX motion with Upwards pick slanting. Especially on acoustic.
Could be that they commonly use this because of the seated position and the way the guitar is already slanted?
I notice this as well. When I’m sitting a DSX motion is easier to to versus when I’m standing up with my fairly thin Strat.
Hence, I make sure that when I’m sitting down, my guitar is still relatively straight in terms of slanting.

Secondly, the pick slant is different in seated position versus standing up because the neck of the guitar is not angled up when sitting down in a way where the guitar is on the right leg.
Hence, when I’m seated I try to assume a more classical posture to mimic what happens when standing up.
Less cool, and I fall for this too often, but the changes are then much smaller standing vs sitting

#6

I read an article in Guitar World when I was like 13 where Herman Li (of Dragonforce, if you’re not familiar) said to always practice standing up since it was better for your posture and would be the same thing you’re doing live - and after having my brain blasted out my ear holes by “Through the Fire and Flames” 13 year old me would’ve done anything he recommended :joy:

I always slung my guitar real low just because I thought it looked cool and back then I did notice that it was a lot harder to play for me standing up, especially since I’ve now learned I was a primarily DSX player with a combination of wrist and elbow. Now that I do a lot of USX stuff with forearm rotation I find that it’s almost easier to play standing up since I can let my right arm relax more and hang down so I get less tension in my shoulder; I tend to hike up a little bit when seated.

Interestingly enough I also find my fretting hand position changes when standing as well to much more of a consistently thumb over position.

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#7

I find standing vs sitting an entirely different set of…the word I want to use is “challenges” but maybe it’s just “variables.” There are so many things that go into how the guitar is positioned and a large % of them are different when sitting vs standing.

In many cases, and this sounds like a joke but it’s not, I’ve found that having a big belly makes playing standing up a lot easier. Rather than the guitar just hanging off of you, you have a bit of a surface to adjust and maneuver. Check out Johnny Hiland (no offense, Johnny.)

Otherwise, we can adjust strap height, and change the position of the guitar a bit depending on what kind of picking-arm pressure we’re putting on the body, but our options seem pretty limited. My least favorite thing is playing standing up with a guitar with a ‘bad’ weight distribution, as I prefer to have the guitar neck angled up at least a bit.

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#8

I have found the difference in ergonomics between playing standing or seated to be very frustrating.

The basic advice I was given by my teacher when I first started was to set my strap length so that the guitar was the same height standing or seated. Most players sit with the guitar resting on their right leg, so we get this:

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Notice that the when the guitar hangs, it shifts slightly more toward my picking arm.

Honestly, this is probably fine for most people playing most things. However, notice the external rotation of my left shoulder and the internal rotation of my right shoulder. If I try to stretch a major third interval on the low strings, this is likely to happen:

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Not good, and with the guitar in this position there isn’t much I can do about it.

Some would say I started from the wrong place, and that we should sit with the guitar on left leg and use a footstool. So, we get this

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Notice that the position of the guitar has drifted again. The major third can be approached much more comfortably, however, this isn’t without problems either.

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Now, stretching high in the neck requires me to retract my shoulder and pull my elbow hard behind my back. I’m applying presssure with the forearm of my picking arm to lever the neck away from my body. This isn’t ideal either.

When I sit in classical position, I am able to maintain a more comfortable distance from my body to the neck so I can navigate the whole neck comfortably. When I stand, gravity makes the guitar lie fush against my body and takes that space away.

I’m 6’ and about 150lbs. The guitar just doesn’t hang on me in such a way to allow me to maintain comfortable distance.

However, if I were heavier, this would happen:

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This is much, much more comfortable. I first tried this after watching Shawn Lane playing standing. I agree with @JakeEstner, being heavier naturally positions the guitar in a more ergonomic position.

So, maybe I could solve my problems by eating more. However, there are other (healthier) ways to change how a guitar hangs.

When watching footage of Allan Holdsworth playing his Charvel guitars, I noticed something

Despite having a strap pin on the upper horn, his strap was attached to a strap pin behind the neck. A few minutes with a scredriver later, and this

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becomes this

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And now, the guitar hangs like this

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Notice my elbow isn’t pulled back so far behind me. Also, here I don’t need to lever the guitar into position by applying pressure with my picking arm.

Unfortunately, this isn’t without problems either. The neck screw doesn’t make a great connection with the neck, and this could result in damage to the threading in the neck. I used to have the pin in this position but I moved it when it started feeling a little loose. So, my plan with my Strat syle guitars is to buy more strap pins and install them here

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by drilling through the neck plate and having the strap pin screw secure in the body.

However, I keep putting that job off for later, because I have a guitar which is just inherently more comfortable to play.

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I had this guitar built with ergonomics in mind. To me, this is basically the ideal. It feels eactly the same sitting down or standing up and hangs exactly where I want it to. It balances perfectly and I don’t need to support it with either arm while playing.

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Cmcgee 902 picking motion critique
#9

This is quite the breakdown :nerd_face: nice dude. I think guitar is just all in all not a super ergonomic instrument to play :sweat_smile: but we all make due somehow.

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#10

If anyone has a Strandberg, they have a third, maybe fourth option with the lower cutout on either leg.

#11

I knew my weight gain would help out my guitar playing in some way. Or at least I was hoping

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#12

Great post, Tom. I don’t have anything to add except the picture with the pillow behind your guitar is one of my favorite things I have ever seen posted here lmao

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#13

Yes, great stuff Tom. I think with sitting and standing there’s no perfect solution, just pros and cons.

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#14

Your analysis is perfection. You are right that sitting should be in the “classical” style, and that standing should have the guitar be close. I usually play my Warmoth “Flying V,” and now I know why: the strap attaches where you pointed out, it is my “copy” of your custom axe!

#15

I know this might be a bit frivolous, but the belly cutout of a guitar is meant for the ribs or the pec. It’s not for your belly. It’s called belly because it’s the guitar belly.
Now obvious if you want to play it low, thats your free will to do so. But I actually think having the guitar up high looks just as cool as low. It’s all about your demeanor.

#16

Thanks, I’m glad the picture got a laugh.

Being serious, there is a very real difference in the ergonomics of how the guitar hangs with and without the pillow. The extra distance provided by the pillow helps me keep my shoulder and elbow in a more natural position higher in the neck.

I agree that there’s no perfect solution, there are always compromises.

While there is no perfect solution, we may be able to achieve a solution which is optimal subject to the constraints. Those constraints would depend on our body, the design of our guitar and what we want to play.

For me to be most comfortable with a Strat-style guitar, I need a strap pin behind the neck heel. With the strap pin on the upper horn, the guitar simply will not hang in a position which would facilitate stretches high in the neck. It’s just a consequence of my body type.

I’d be hesitant to state this as a rule. It depends massively on what you want to play.

If you want to play Hendrix-style rhythm guitar with your thumb over the top to fret bass notes, or you want to bend heavy strings, classical sitting position or a standing position which approximates it is not ideal. The fretting hand simply cannot approach the neck in a manner which best facilitates that type of playing. That style of playing is best facilitated by having the guitar hang at your hips while standing, or sitting with the guitar on the right leg.

For most people playing most things on most guitars, sitting with the guitar on the right leg and a standing position which approximates it is fine. It may even be the best compromise for somebody given the range of things they want to play.

Of course, there are many things which these positions do not facilitate, and which are better served by a classical posture.

That is the typical attachment point for several Gibson designs, including both the SG and the Flying V. The SG is known for being a neck heavy guitar. The neck tends to dive unless supported by the frettting hand. The Flying V usually doesn’t suffer from this problem due to the differences in weight distribution and the different location of the other strap pin. I agree, the V is a very comfortable guitar to play, especially when standing. Excellent upper fret access too.

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#17

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. :smiley:

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#18

Great post! I think another factor you have not mentioned is that many players move their guitar around while they play live- it’s not always static on one position. This can be done to get access to different left hand stretches or tough bends or thumb over neck fretting. Watch some live concerts and you’ll see this. Probably not with Allan Holdsworth so much, but definitely Stevie Ray:) Actually Slash does this really obvious thing where he puts the guitar almost upright, neck pointing straight up, to get some wide stretches. Also looks cool? Or not depending on your sensibility…

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#19

@Tom_Gilroy thanks for that post

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#20

I suspected that this product exists, and it does:

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