Please critique my wrist motion!

Sorry if I was a bit unclear about the tilting and I’m not sure i can explain it any better.

And when i asked about the pressure i wasn’t talking about the picks pressure on the string but the whole hand pressure against the bridge/strings.

Moreover, I’m still struggling with getting the feel of wrist motion right. Every time I think i get it right it feels different the next day. I’ve been going back and forth with this wrist thing for years and I’m almost losing my mind. I can never figure out if what I’m doing is elbow or forearm or wrist or combinations even if know everything in theory. Sometimes I feel like I’m making progress but i always end up on square one. Maybe my approach is wrong.

Sorry for ranting. I just don’t know what to do and I’m feeling so frustrated.

Hi Drew! Yes, re: hand pressure on the bridge, I would say there shouldn’t feel like pressure, just resting. I don’t notice any particular difference between these motions. I mean, from a few feet away, and especially to the untrained eye, they all look exactly the same. That’s how minor the differences are.

RE: frustration, of course I hear you on that. We’ve all been down this road. But I think you have to take a few steps back here. If you didn’t tell me you feel frustrated, I would certainly never know from your playing. It all sounds great. As I said, that lick in the “USX3” clip is great and I would steal it and use it myself. The attack is smooth, the playing is perfectly clean, what’s not to like? If there’s some kind of failure of technique I’m not really seeing it or hearing it!

If you learned precisely zero other picking motions, and just took the motion you’re using in that one clip, and built up a whole vocabulary of those phrases, over different kinds of tonaliies (major, minor, dominant, and so on), and learned to connect them over chord changes, you could stand next to anyone. How many alternate picking motions does Goerge Benson really have for lead lines? One? One and a half? His technique doesn’t even permit playing the line you’re playing in the “DBX” clip. And the guy can wipe the floor with anyone.

I don’t know what your musical goals are, but let’s say it’s improvisational type playing, playing through changes, that kind of thing. You can take just take the motions you have here in these few clips, which are already more than George has, and work on musical vocabulary. Lick writing and transcribing, connecting those phrases through changes. Any kind of line, single escape or double or whatever. Mix it up. You have the core of the physical chops now for this.

As you do this, you might be better served by placing the overt “working on mechanics” aspect a little toward the back burner and focusing on the musical side. You know enough about picking technique now to observe and notice cleanliness when it happens, both by sound and feel. This is a huge advantage compared to not knowing and being in the dark. As these little moments of cleanliness happen, you will make mental note of it, because it’s a thing you care about, and this will make it more likely you’ll repeat them in the future. Over the long haul, that’s how you improve accuracy, i.e. through the awareness of when something is accidentally a little better than it was before.

Again, I don’t know what your musical goals are, and it might be something other than improv. I’m just using that as an example of what I would do if I were in this situation. Just a little perspective.

Keep up the good work.

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Thanks again Troy! Maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s time to not focus on the technique per se but more on musical phrases. As you guessed I’m very much an improvisational player and I have played and practised a lot of jazz in my years but in my view I haven’t got the technique to play what I wanted, that’s why I came here! I have learned a lot and I’m much better than I was some years ago but my technique still feels so unreliable to me. Some days it works some days it doesn’t at all.

Anyway, I have two new videos that anyone is welcome to comment on if they want. Of course i want help from all the competent people here at the forum but i hope my posts also can contribute the community!

This is me playing the beginning of the “Neoclassical flex”. I think I’m using a angle pad grip (this is the grip that feels most natural to me) I wonder if this is the optimal arm position for this grip? Also is this pure wrist? It feels like I’m using a bit of arm aswell.

This is a jazz line i came up with. Am i stringhopping or is this correct DBX? I can’t really tell cause it feels a bit strainy.

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Hey @drewguitar, this looks/sounds great! Any particular reason why you are worried about grip/arm involvement etc.?

When things are working we tend not to be too concerned with having exactly 100% wrist motion, a prescribed grip and so on. These are idealisations that are helpful for teaching purposes, but if your body finds slight variations to those formulas that work for you, why not! At the end of the day “sounding & feeling good” is the true objective here. Hopefully @Troy agrees but I’ll tag him just in case he wants to add something!

Typically, in this situation, doing a “speed test” will give you the answer: can you bump up the speed past -say - 140 bpm 16th notes and still play the notes, even if not so clean? Then it’s likely you are not hopping.
EDIT: and most importantly, does it feel relatively effortless? (I.e. comparable to picking on a single string?).

If instead you feel a definite speed bump even at moderate speeds (which is what you seem to suggest), it may be stringhopping.

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Yes, agree, use what is working. This looks like wrist-elbow to me. But again, don’t care, use what is working.

I don’t think there’s an “it”, per se. Some people do seem to have a technique where every motion looks like stringhopping. These are the people that complain the loudest about having a low speed limit. But this clip doesn’t look like that. It doesn’t have that super vertical look that we see in problematic clips.

This looks pretty good to me and certainly sounds great. I mean, this is at least Pat Martino levels of speed here. So at the worst, if there’s is something inefficient about this, it’s not every note. And it’s not going to be super obvious from looking at it what that efficiency is.

Ergo, your advice about simply trying to go faster is right on. If speed can reveal the lack of smoothness, then great.

@drewguitar the other thing I’d ask is that when you’re playing these phrases, if you could give us at least one take of the phrase at normal speed, that would be great. It’s harder to get a sense of what the line is when it drops into slow motion after a few notes. One thing you can do is play the line twice and only do slow motion for the second one. Or post the same clip twice, once at normal speed and again in slow. This is almost better because then we’re looking at the identical example, just slowed down.

Either way, I think these and the other clips give put the lie to the idea that you somehow don’t have enough technique to get on with the business of playing most if not even all of your ideas. These are great.