Questions on learning core motion

Technique Critique
#21

Ok so you got some real right hand speed to work with! Great!

Can you play the six-note-sequence in your first video with left hand only at higher speed? I mean with hammer ons and pull offs? If that’s the case, then it’s all about trying to get rid of fears of not having total control for a while. Let go and just go for it at speed with picking. Suddenly you might catch up on the feeling where the downstroke accent matches up with the first note of the chunk. This is the feeling your looking for and feels different from when you pick every note very consciously.

Lastly, I’m not so sure your picking motion is USX at high speed. In your last video it kind of looks a little bit more like down stroke escape motion to me. I might be totally wrong though. Anyway, when trying to synchronize both hands at high speed, I think sticking to one string only is a good idea. Otherwise the string changes might trip you up.

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#22

Dude I FEEL you. Like in my literal bones.

I actually just had a breakthrough last night (maybe? we’ll see if it’s reproduced when I get time to play later today) I was topping out on a 2nd position Cmaj scale at around 120-140 BPM, I originally thought it was due to inaccurate picking but that didn’t make a tonne of sense to me, since I can play OTHER non-scaler patterns significantly faster and cleaner. I think what was happening was that if my fretting lagged or rushed (hah let’s be serious, it was lagging) the pick to fret coordination didn’t line up and I’d lose track of what string I needed to be on because my ears weren’t getting the proper cue to switch.

I know that’s probably not chunking per-se and I’m being a bad person with this ‘advice’ such that it is but whatever weird magic happened for 20 minutes last night at 10:30pm after I’d been playing some simple folk stuff and throw in an occasional fiddle tune, I ran my cMaj scale 40 BPM faster than I’ve ever been able to. We’re not talking a 3 or 5 BPM shift here, it’s not even close. I never thought I’d get to be one of “those” people with speed breakthroughs but… :joy:

For whatever reason, I was able to lighten up on my fretwork so that it didn’t feel like I was trying to imprint string outlines into my guitar and… like I barely want to verbalize it but I hit 170 BPM quarter notes up and down the scale last night. That’s an EASY 40 BPM jump from what it was before. My main issue (I think?) was at those faster speeds, I needed to be absolutely sure that the shift across the B string was nailed on accurate, or the entire cadence upended itself and it sounded like I couldn’t even keep track of the number of picks per string.

I don’t know if that’ll help you at all, and I don’t want to side-track this thread in the slightest so

tl;dr: I had great (possibly flukey) success by lightening up on my fretting

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#23

Hey, i appreciate the advice, and congrats on your breakthrough!

Left hand tension is something worth considering here, as well as really paying attention to the
landmark notes when chunking these patterns.

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#26

Hey @NCASO, my previous response may have been too rushed, sorry!

Troy suggested I have a closer look at the fast clip, and long story short I have to agree with @qwertygitarr once again - this looks like DSX, not USX!

Could it be that this is the reason you are tripping up on faster playing? I.e. you are trying to play USX lines with a DSX movement? The obvious thing to try now is a bunch of DSX phrases, and let us know how that goes!

The broader question is: what are your musical goals at the moment? You shared a recording a while ago that showed you are a good player already, so maybe you don’t have to confine yourself to “academic” exercises. Assuming you are indeed doing DSX you could already pick some musical pieces that can be done with that motion (or that can be arranged as DSX with appropriate refretting, pulloffs etc.)

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#27

@tommo, Thanks!
I’ve been working with the Volcano seminar for several years, along with other materials that focus on YJMs techniques

I’ve approached the material above using DWPS.
That is the natural resting state of my hands in the first clips, that i posted.

Perhaps I am using a different escape motion when I I tremelo pick. I really only use that , or a locked wrist motion for tremelo picking. Either way I’ll have to generate some more clips with better angles to demonstrate.

#28

I see, indeed the focus of that seminar was pickslanting, because until recently we all thought that a DWPS automatically gives you an upstroke escape (USX).

But now we realised things are more complicated, and your tremolo example might be one interesting case of DWPS + downstroke escape motion. Would definitely be useful to have a closer look.

In the meantime, you can already test this DSX hypothesis in practical applications, without the need for magnet footage. For example, if you like YJM licks, one possibility is to imitate the excellent Jeff Loomis, and try to start the sixes on an upstroke like so:

#29

Good suggestion!

I would also suggest trying some of the well known DSX licks that start with a downstroke, which you might be more comfortable with. The first example that come to mind is descending or ascending sixes. These are some of the most used licks for DSX players, work perfectly with DSX motion and sound great. Here is PG blazing through the ascending version.

Just back the video up a bit and you get the instruction for the lick.

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#30

“Little hip” and that little smirk as they wipe to the next clip… god dammit Paul!

lol what a guy

#31

@qwertygitarr, thanks!

I use intense rock, and run through these
Excercises quite often in daily practice.

I approach all RH picking with a DWPS
That is my natural resting posture and feels most comfortable. I believe I might be doing something differently when I’m "tremelo picking "

Either way, more vids should hopefully clarify.

I appreciate the the time and advice!

#32

Ok great! Are there any licks in there that feel easier/harder?

I see where you’re coming from. The thing is that using a DWPS hand position isn’t automatically gonna make your hand do a USX motion. I think you know this. And you might be doing a USX motion a slow speed, but the tremolo video is telling us what your hand probably will wanna do, when you reach that speed with both hands synchronized. And to be clear, we still don’t know for certain what that motion really is, until we get close up footage.

But we can clearly see that this motion is giving you great speed, something we have not seen in the other videos. So instead of throwing away that motion as “something different I only do when tremolo picking”, this might be the motion you should use to your advantage.

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#33

Understood. More vids, with better angles should help bring clarity.
:+1::+1::+1:

#34
#35

Here is another shot of "Tremolo picking sextuplets "

#36

The angle is good, but it’s too dim to see the pick!

The motion looks like mostly elbow, but it’s hard to tell due to motion blur and black pick against black pickguard. If I were to guess, I’d say DSX.

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#37

Thx, appreciate the feedback. I need to get some proper vids up.