State of the music industry 2018 - Dying? Thriving? Somewhere in between?

General Music Discussion
#1

I never quite know what to make of your posts.

In any event, big CB fan here since the mid 2000s. Besides putting out 2 killer albums and doing collabs with with Yngwie’s singer Mark Boals, Brett Garsed, Rick Graham… he’s been a clinician, toured with the metal band LORD here in Australia, ran a music school which was Australia’s largest, and more importantly - puts a lot of value out there into the world for people like me with educational and motivational content through social media.

You’d be surprised at how many guitarists would kill to sell their first pressing of 500 albums these days. Lion Music used to consider 1000 copies a successful release back in the early 2000s. I can only shudder that what guys on that label would sell now. It’s a different business. It’s all about streams and instant access.

If sales qualifies someone to create quality educational product, then I can’t wait for the Kanye Method for Hybrid Picking.

3 Likes
Chris Brooks - Speed Strategies for Guitar
#2

“I never quite know what to make of your posts.”

Could you be more specific? What did I write that was unclear to you?

“You’d be surprised at how many guitarists would kill to sell their first pressing of 500 albums these days. Lion Music used to consider 1000 copies a successful release back in the early 2000s. I can only shudder that what guys on that label would sell now. It’s a different business. It’s all about streams and instant access.”

A guitarist can’t make a living off those numbers you mentioned. He’d have to teach just to make ends meet. I’m not even talking about reaching star status; I’m just talking about basic things like paying a mortgage and making car payments. 4,000 copies sold won’t do it either. Like I said, It’s not exactly setting the world on fire.

#3

A successful self-financed album used to be able to make reasonable money. In the early 2000s I knew guys that were selling albums on Amazon, Guitar Nine Records etc and the wholesale price at the time was $9 USD for a RPP of $15.99 - that’s $9 in the hands of the person who made the music. Here in Oz that nearly doubled when the exchange rate was 0.52. That’s real money compared to the paltry streaming rates of 1/3 of $0.01 per play in the current market. But like I said, he used to run a music school in Sydney. Word has it the annual turnover was over $1M per annum. If you wanna know what someone earns I guess you’d have to go ask them. Fusionister Tom Quayle just did a signature model with Ibanez without even making an original song, so there are lots of ways to make a living or be influential.

#4

“That’s real money compared to the paltry streaming rates of 1/3 of $0.01 per play in the current market.”

I’d like to know what financial wizard negotiated those rates. The rock music business is dead. From the 1950’s onward, each generation of rock musicians was handed a thriving business capable of selling platinum albums and selling out arenas at concerts by the generation of rock musicians before them.

That all changed around the late 90s when not just the musicians but the major record labels, especially the record labels just took the money they’d made and they ran at the first sign of trouble. What did they leave the next generations to be of rock musicians? They didn’t hand us a thriving business. They handed us a dead horse. The major record labels should have been sending their best lobbyists to Washington and told the government to either get rid of sites that distribute copyrighted music without authorization (a felony) or shut the damn internet down until you get control over it because if you don’t we’ll be happy to not just take millions but billions and billions of dollars out of your pockets. Rock music was a multi, multi billion dollar a year industry and for it to fall off so fast and so hard like it did isn’t just unnatural; it’s sick.

#5

I haven’t really kept up with him, but I got to know him a little over Jemsite WAY back in the day, and picked up a copy of his (first?) album, “The Master Plan,” I think off Guitar 9 Records back when that was still a thing. Guy’s a monster player,

Also, as a guy who self-released an album, I’ll second the observation that I’d be psyched to sell 500. :rofl: I joke that I’ve got a closet full of coasters that double as really bad frisbees, however!

#6

Well, they sent their best lawyers to deal with it in the courts, since p2p filesharing was already a violation of existing law, but once people got used to gettiing music for free, it was kind of all over.

In some ways, the changes we’ve seen in the music industry haven’t been all bad - I can now record music at home that sounds better than anything I could have done in a local studio as a teenager, and as the industry has evolved, people have figured out how to make a living out of it. And it’s not like the majors don’t have enough blood on their hands as it is.

In fact, if anything, technology has democratized the music industry - you talk about a “thriving business capable of selling platinum albums and selling out arenas,” but the number of bands that were actually doing that, normalized by the number of bands that were trying to, was a very small percentage. Today, with music creation tools in the hands of pretty much everyone, and with a massive distribution network thanks to the internet, almost anyone can record and distribute music, whereas in the past labels were gatekeepers. There are pros and cons to that, and got knows I’ve heard some music that probably shouldn’t ave been recorded but was thanks to the internet, but I’ll say as a music fan, there’s probably never been a better time to be a lover of guitar music, because one thing technology has given us is a better ability to hone into particular niches.

2 Likes
#7

“Well, they sent their best lawyers to deal with it in the courts,”

I don’t know that they did. If that was the best they had they should have hired better lawyers. The industry seemed apathetic about it to be honest. Lars Ulrich talked a lot about it publicly - not even the whole band - it was mostly Lars. besides Metallica which other bands took a brave stand against it? Very few. If they’d all united, they could have won. How can you fail to prove in court that filesharing isn’t “unauthorized distribution” ( a felony)? How incompetent do you have to be to not prove it was a violation of copyright law? The was an industry worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Certainly they had the money to successfully fight if they had the courage and the determination to do so.

It seems to me that besides Metallica, most of these millionaire rock bands said to themselves “We made our money already. Screw the future generations of musicians. We got ours.” I believe that’s what the major record labels said to themselves. They are the main ones at fault since they had the most money but most bands didn’t lift a finger to protest publicly like Lars Ulrich did. People already being used to breaking the law isn’t a valid defense in court.

“In fact, if anything, technology has democratized the music industry - you talk about a “thriving business capable of selling platinum albums and selling out arenas,” but the number of bands that were actually doing that, normalized by the number of bands that were trying to, was a very small percentage.”

Now it’s a lower percentage. Zero percent! Not one band to make it’s debut past the year 2000 sells out arenas of 15,000 or 20,000 seating capacity. Literally no rock stars have been created out of everyone who has debuted in 2001 or later. The incentive that existed before, that if you worked very hard there was a chance you could make it, was there and now it’s not. Established artists in the music industry from Ozzy Osbourne to Yngwie Malmsteen have all said words to the effect of, you can make a lot of money even these days, but only if you’re already established (like they are). If you aren’t already established you have no chance." Yngwie Malmsteen isn’t even nearly as much of a household name as Van Halen or Metallica but even Yngwie is a multimillionaire. I suspect Vai and Stariani are as well. None of these shredders that have come along in the last 17 years are millionaires. Becoming a millionaire rock star was The American Dream. The dream is dead.

#8

I’m drinking bourbon while I browse the forums and practice a bit, so forgive me for not closing the loop on that thought - yes, there are fewer multi-platinum artists (in rock, anyhow) these days, but there are a whole heck of a lot more independent bands today making a modest living off their music, whereas in 1985, you were either Van Halen, or you were a bar band going nowhere and falling deeper into debt.

Vai, Satriani, and Yngwie were anomalies in that they broke out when shred guitar was “in” and particularly in the case of Vai his economic success has a lot more to do with his business sense than his (staggeringly good) playing. That said, there are definitely guys out their supporting themselves as shred guitarists well enough to earn a living. It’s not dead, it’s just divided up into fewer pieces (and, i suspect, again speaking only for rock here, more of that pie is going to artists than to labels than ever before).

1 Like
#9

I don’t know if you read the Yngwie interview I linked to my previous post. He’s more qualified to speak about this than any of us. Here’s a section of the interview with Yngwie on this subject:

"Asked if he thinks that’s led to an upsurge in the live music scene, Yngwie said: "Look, the thing is, if you’re already established, if you’re JUDAS PRIEST or Yngwie Malmsteen, you’re fine. There’s no difference; you do what you’ve been doing and it’s the same. But if you’re a nobody and you want to sound really good but you want to start out, you can’t get a tour bus or an opening act slot because there’s no machine there to invest in you.

"All the old acts, like ALICE COOPER, the SCORPIONS, THE POLICE and more, they’re bigger than ever.

“Do you remember the days when there was a new band every fucking week? It’s not happening! Back then, someone could sink a few hundred grand into a band and make millions.”

That’s just the thing right there in his last sentence: Who is sinking a few hundred grand into a rock band these days? Without that they have no realistic chance to get anywhere significant.

#10

I think maybe I’m not explaining myself clearly. :smile:

Well, for one, that’s absolutely happening in the pop world. There are bands hitting the studio with million dollar recording and promotion budgets and emerging as stars. Yngwie in some ways is maybe not the best example, since he broke out in an era where technical guitar playing was in, and today it’s regulated to a niche - you don’t sell out ampitheaters, you play clubs packed with guitarists scruitinizing your hand movements as you play.

But, I think what I’m trying to get across, is the advent of widespead (and high quality) home recording and the ability to connect with others over the internet has allowed artists to support themselves on a smaller scale in ways they couldn’t previously - not spend “a few hundred grand and make millions,” but spend a couple grand and make tens of thousands.

The last show I saw was Angel Vivaldi, Scale the Summit, and Andy James. None of them are household names outside of the guitar world, but Andy, Chris Letchford (of StS) and Angel are all monster players who (well, I’m less sure of Letchford, I seem to recall him coming from a wealthy family) have been able to support themselves writing original music, teaching, and through sponsorship deals. I’ve known Angel personally foor a number of years now and I think it was three or four years now since he quit his day job and went after music full time, and things seem to be going pretty well for him. And he did it all independently - no label, mostly committing his own money but crowdfunding his last two albums, buzz building through word of mouth and over the internet, and leveraged that first into a deal with Ibanez and Dimarzio, and these days with both Mesa/Boogie and Charvel. He’s a long way from collecting Rolexes like the Yngster, but he’s supporting himself. And of course then there’s Periophery, which love them or hate them they’re probably the hottest new band in metal, who I remember from back when they were just this dude named bulb posting these crazy Meshuggah inspired riffs on the Petrucci forum and sevenstring.org. They’ve turned into a financial juggernaut these days, without the support of a major label.

Back in 1987, how many guys other than Satriani, Vai, and Yngwie were really able to make any real money as instrumental musicians? Yet, maybe a month or so ago, I saw three guys on tour making modest but feasible incomes as independent artists. I think the real problem here is that outside of pop music, labels just aren’t that much use to guitar-driven music these days.

Neither here nor there, though - the real post of all of this is Chris Brooks is a killer player and seems to be doing just fine for himself :+1:

#11

"Back in 1987, how many guys other than Satriani, Vai, and Yngwie were really able to make any real money as instrumental musicians? Yet, maybe a month or so ago, I saw three guys on tour making modest but feasible incomes as independent artists. I think the real problem here is that outside of pop music, labels just aren’t that much use to guitar-driven music these days.

Neither here nor there, though - the real post of all of this is Chris Brooks is a killer player and seems to be doing just fine for himself"

I’m happy for him; he seems to be very technically proficient. I don’t know what his songwriting talent is like, but maybe I’ll look for a song of his on Youtube.

You’re right that Yngwie, Vai, and Satriani did exceptionally well for their virtuoso guitar style music. I’d be interested to know, and maybe you do know, who good of a living in the 80s did guys with instrumental albums like Vinnie Moore, Tony Macalpine, and Greg Howe do? How did their incomes in he 80s compare with that of Chris Brooks and how he is doing now?

Did you ever hear of a guitarist named Dallas Perkins? He had an instrumental EP in 1988 or 1989 named “The Looking Glass Project” with incredible sweep picking and eight finger tapping. He taught at G.I.T… for a few years. Before that, fairly soon after he had graduated from G.I.T. he moved to Tampa and was my guitar teacher for about 4 months. He taught me to sweep pick. I brought him up because he and I are friends on Facebook and he’s now living in Los Angeles. What made me think you might know who he is, is that you mentioned Andy James, and that name sounds familiar. I think Andy James and Dallas Perkins sometimes play at some of the same clubs on the same nights.

Dallas left Tampa originally to go to Los Angeles after he got a spot as the lead guitarist in Roxx Gang. remember them? I saw Dallas play at The Rock-It Club in Tampa (legendary nightclub) with Roxx Gang and they were killer!

#12

Hey @Jakku @Acecrusher @Drew I split this discussion off from the Chris Brooks topic b/c it was indeed getting quite far from original topic…but I think it’s an interesting conversation to have!

I think this makes sense as its own topic but feel free to edit (or have me edit) some of the posts here or in the original thread. I may add some more thoughts on this as well :smiley:

1 Like
#13

You HAD to call it that the night of the State of the Union Address, haha.

#14

Oh geez haha I wasn’t even thinking of that…must have bubbled up subconsciously :rofl:

1 Like
#15

Satchel offered his take on the 21st century music industry, in pretty much the way you’d expect from Satchel (from a 2018 clinic in Detroit):

(jump to 5:48)