'Strict' Eco picking technique

Technique Critique
#1

Hey all,

I’m a long time lurker of CtC. I could never play fast alternate picking after suffering an rsi from bad technique in my early teens, as such I’ve mostly relied on economy picking to play fast lines. Since then, the free CtC content has improved my alternate picking tremendously, and I feel like I can alt pick again (which is awesome!). However, after watching the recent Frank Gambale interview, I’ve made an account to start a discussion on economy picking, because I released I’ve been doing it a little differently to how he describes it: Where Frank changes pick stroke to change directions, I’ve instead always ‘strictly’ economy picked; IE, my pick always stays trapped, even when changing picking direction. Here’s a video to demonstrate what I mean with descending/ascending 4s (which I’ve found is by far one of the hardest patterns to play with this technique).

Does anyone else do this? Any ideas to improve this technique further?

Thanks,

Asher

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#2

I believe Rick Graham does it the same way as you. He has some lesson packs on economy picking if you want to explore his method further. You can find them on his website.

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#3

Totally unrelated, but that’s a hot guitar, and you should trim those string ends!

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#4

IMO this is not “strict” economy - which is impossible in this kind of sequence. You’re using Inside Alternate picking for string changes where a sweep is not possible, which forces pick rotation and a change in pickslant.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I do the same thing for this sequence. It’s just that economy only really works 100% strict in odd grouped patterns on all strings.

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#5

Hey @aelazary, welcome to the Forum!

@LuckyMojo I was about to type the same, thank you :slight_smile:

I’d just make a slight amendment: it’s a change in “pick trajectory”, where the pick must escape the plane of the strings, not necessarily implying a change in pickslant

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#6

True, maybe it’s more precise to say that the escape direction changes on the rotation for that one pickstroke.

We can compromise and call this “maximal economy” (with a touch of inside alternate) :wink:

I was just working on putting a lesson together on this exact technique. I’ll share here soon with my thoughts.

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#7

Yup this is what I meant; there are no outside alt picking string changes! I have always considered the ‘economy picking’ to mean that you must MUST a sweep wherever possible rather than just referring to using successive downstrokes/upstrokes. Semantics I guess.

#8

Here’s an example of a pentatonic 4 note sequence from Gambale’s Monster Licks:

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You’ll notice that even with this “pure” sweeping approach, the pick rotates to change the escape direction (at the red points), so not every stroke is a rest stroke. He’s sweeping through all the string changes, but the pick trajectory is not the same for every downstroke or upstroke.

That double rotation in the middle of the sequence is an inside alternate picking move, so even Gambale has to adapt the sweeping mechanic where the fingering requires it.

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#9

Nice playing!

The fours pattern you’re playing in this video, the way you’ve arranged it on the fretboard, can’t be done completely trapped. The pattern involves single notes on strings by themselves, and there’s no way to sweep toward those notes, and also return from those notes with a sweep. So right away you know that you are mixing alternate and sweep string changes.

I can see the alternate string changes pretty clearly, even without flipping the YT player into slow motion. But if you film yourself with a “down the strings” angle, you’ll get an even better view of exactly what you’re doing. Here are some tips:

You are doing what Frank does. I understand it may not feel that way to you, but that can actually be helpful. Sometimes a good way to test whether you’re doing something correctly is if you find a way where it doesn’t feel like much. And a lot of times, what you’re actually doing will be the right motion or motions, where if you “tried” to do those motions you might actually end up overdoing it.

Short story, I’d keep doing what you’re doing because it seems to be working. I would also try doing this at more speeds in between your fast speeds and the slow ones. This will let you use form which is closer to your “fast form”, which is more efficient, while fixing some of the note dropouts that you can only feel or hear at the slower speeds. This is probably why I don’t do a lot of metronome stuff. I’m always changing tempo up and down in random ways, trying to find the speed or speeds where the mistakes are fixeable but the form is still efficient.

Good work so far.

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#10

Thanks for your response Troy!

What got me making the post in the first place minor pentatonic line at around 14:47; Frank plays the descending sequence Up Up Up Down (repeat), whereas I would approach it Down Up Up Down (repeat) instead. I guess I don’t really understand the reason why he does the outside alternate picking string change?

Directional Picking
#11

Any time you see UUD, or UUUD, that’s one-way economy. One arm position, one pickslant, one alternate picking motion, one sweeping motion. It’s the fewest moving parts. It is dead simple and highly reliable. Eric Johnson’s entire technique is one-way economy, just downstroke economy: DDU DDDU, and so on, where sweeping is always on a downstroke. One arm position, one pickslant, one alternate picking motion, one sweeping motion.

If you try and pick these types of lines any other way, most players will need to introduce arm or finger motion to do it, and you will see escaped inside picking. You can see these arm and finger motions in your playing.

I’m not saying it’s wrong. If it works, it works. But if you’re asking me to guess why players have evolved to use the one-way approach whenever possible, probably because it’s mechanically simpler.

The rest of the series will explain all this in great detail, so stay tuned!

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#12

ok got it, that actually makes a lot more sense

Thanks Troy

#13

Are there more parts coming to the analysis videos?

#14

Sorry! I just meant on YouTube. For those who aren’t signed up, they won’t have watched the other videos yet.

#15

Got it. Already binged on the whole thing lol.

The Gambale series is awesome by the way. I’m a bit biased, but it’s good to see 2 way sweeping getting the spotlight on CtC!

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#16

For sure. Everybody should know how sweeping and alternate picking work in both of the one-way economy modes, and joining them together if they wish. It’s one of the big core ways people use a pick.

#17

Same :slight_smile:
Awesome job on that analysis @Troy and team!

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