The average layperson has almost no ability to discern good from bad playing

General Music Discussion
#21

I’m not quite sure if you’re saying that I’m being obnoxious in what I’m saying (which isn’t at all my intention) or that these aspects of technique are obnoxiously difficult (which they absolutely are).

Yeah, I love this tune. Albert King generally, really.

When I really started studying this, I didn’t even know how to transcribe it properly. I still don’t.

“Oh, that’s about a 2.6 semitone bend with this contour and the vibrato phrased like this, attacking the string like this, and…”

That’s great. I love Jeff and Rory too, they were also fantastic at this stuff. I’d say that Jeff took this stuff further than anybody from the Guitar Shop album onwards.

Honestly, it’s just a totally different thing. No hate on modellers.

#22

Do you mean that the 100W marhall head is like all unwieldy because of feedback and extra sound and shit?

#23

There’s that, for sure.

More than that, with real amps the guitar and the input stage are all one RLC circuit. You’re playing the amplifier as much as you’re playing the guitar.

It’s not the same as playing through a modeller. It’s just not.

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#24

Stop hating on muh modelers!

I can’t gun a fukn 100W marshall in my condo lol.

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#25

100% the latter, that it takes an obnoxious amount of talent and control to pull that off in a solo and have it land as squarely as King does. Sorry! I guess that was unclear. :rofl:

I don’t think you really can - you could try to notate it maybe by drawing a little curve to indicate how you get there, but that only works when you’re going exactly to pitch and not slightly flat and then on repeats gradually to pitch or something. I think it’s one of those things where you just notate then bend, and add a note saying “go listen, and work out the inflections by ear.” Tab or standard notation only gets you so close.

You absolutely can, and I have. :lol: Mesa, anyway, not Marshall. You just cant run it flat out often, at least not without really pissing off your neighbors.

But controlling an amp at volume really is its own thing… in part because unless you do it routinely (and I don’t) being around something that loud is just a wave of adrenaline for your whole system. Hell, maybe that never goes away. It’s damned cool, feeling the amp interact with how you hit the guitar, in any event.

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#26

My plan to get off modelers in an apartment is simply to have an analog SS rig. It’s going to be glorious when I get around to it :joy:

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#27

Honestly I’m strongly considering getting one of those handy Fryette tube power attenuators and going in hard with some tube amps.

Or maybe I’ll just get the Synergy tube stuff, not sure yet, dunno how well they perform at low volume.

#28

Analog SS? So you mean solid state power amp?

Why even bother then moving away from modelers? To me the point to move away to modelers would be to go full tube.

#29

Analog SS preamp, but yeah.

In classic death metal the Greats were all solid state amps, like the ampeg vh140c. And Dimebag used solid state amps and his tone was great!

On the other end of things, the Roland Jazz Chorus is one of the most sought-after clean tones of all time, and that’s also solid state.

#30

It’s funny, I do love Dimebag’s tone but I can see how some people might find his tone terrible.

#31

Ampless with a tube preamp is what’s up.

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#32

My brain can’t work like that, it rates musicians by my love of their music, untainted by my perception of their character. Eric does seem to be well regarded, even today, he is number 5 on this list:

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#33

Read around Reddit or Facebook for an afternoon. There’s a lot of guitarists out there who’ll tell you that he’s not technical, that he’s an overrated hack, that he was was never that good, etc, etc.

There are dimensions of electric guitar technique where Eric Clapton was peerless in his time, and is still elite today (and I will die on this hill).

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#34

Similarly, Reddit told me Prince was pretty basic. Just pentatonics up and down and some bends.

Gotta love the Internet. :rofl:

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#35

What I think of Eric Clapton as a person doesn’t really inform what I think of his playing, but it definitely is a bit of a factor when sitting down and saying, “I’m in a blues mood. Do I want to listen to Albert King, or Eric Clapton?”

And, as it happens… Clapton’s influence on rock guitar’s tone and vocabularly was directly more impactful than King’s, but listen to that video I shared of “Personal Manager,” and then listen to “Strange Brew,” which has a huge Albert King influence… The former (IMO) sounds a lot more vital and contemporary than the latter, today, and the former is (again, IMO), just better guitar.

Still, that doesn’t undercut Clapton’s importance; his “borrowing” from blues may have pushed the plagarism line in a few places, but he was also one of the mjor crossover points between rock and blues, and without Clapton and a handful of other players, there’s a lot of great music that just never would have otherwise been on my radar.

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#36

Can you post some more examples of what you consider to be Clapton’s best playing?

#37

Please, don’t listen to these on your phone or laptop speakers. You just won’t hear the details. Get a good set of speakers or earphones.

There are some flashes of what was to come in his earlier recordings with the Yardbirds and John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers

but it’s fully realized just a couple of years later in Cream, especially in the live recordings. You could listen to almost anything from Live Cream I or II.

His rhythm playing, vocals, and songwriting improved much more in the '70s, but his lead playing took a backseat. He later focused on his lead playing again, and developed a different style. Actually, some of his best playing appears on the Lethal Weapon soundtracks.

This solo on Sting’s “It’s Probably Me” is a standout

As is this performance of Old Love

#38

Listening now. I think I like older-Clapton better than newer-Clapton by a significant margin. Or maybe heroin-Clapton is what I like lol.

So do you mean the, like, colloquial inflections and idiosyncratic subtle nuances within the execution of his phrases are what’s technical? I admit that sort of thing is what I find most difficult of copping blues licks - always at the start I sound wooden and mechanical until the phrase is under my fingers enough to start trying to emulate those nuances.
And even then I just never seem to sound as fluid, I tend to be better at my own particular brand of slow note shaping.

However I don’t really consider them within the main context/pantheon so to speak of general guitar techniques. Those subtle nuances sometimes add almost too much derivative color relative to standard techniques, no?

I’ll keep listening though, I admit I like it better so far than I thought I would. I think I just hate his fucking song “Tears in Heaven” which is what I most associate him with lol.

And yeah yeah I get it’s a sad song with a sad topic but I still can’t stand that song.

It’s funny though, as I’m listening to these examples I think I’m starting hear that Eric Clapton was in fact an influence on Van Halen in terms of his phrasing.

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#39

I somehow missed this one when I was younger, and my wife would sometimes tease me that a particular part of my music here or there “sounded like the soundtrack to a buddy cop movie.” When we watched this together and I checked the credits to see who the player was, I felt a LOT better. :lol:

As far as unexpected cool playing, that’s right up there with Eddie Van Halen on the Twister soundtrack.

You don’t have to like Tears in Heaven. It did kinda get overplayed. :lol:

But yeah, I think EVH would tell you Clapton was one of his biggest influences. It’s always interesting to trace a player back to their influences - spend some time with Clapton, but then follow him backwards to Freddie King and Albert King. Some really interesting stuff in there too.

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#40

The instrumental is nice and I do like the guitar playing but that production value, especially the sound of the drums and that clearly yamaha keyboard in the background, just SCREAMS 80s production lmao.