You shouldn’t show this video to humans. Now they would know that you are among us ))
It’s intriguing: is clenching your fist helps you just physically, reducing momentum by closing the mass to the rotation center … or is it some biomechanical thing? If you stretch your finger would it be harder to play that fast, or would it be impossible at all?
2 Likes
God dammit, now I’ll have to return to Area 51! I’ve been outed! Haha!
I can still get a good speed without clenching the fist, but it’s far less controlled and for some reason, far more tense even though it LOOKS more relaxed. Though I think it’s possible I’d be able to use that hand position more comfortably if I worked on it a bit, it doesn’t feel impossible, just a bit unrefined at the moment.
2 Likes
It’s interesting. Thank you!
Ok, so my observation from this video is that Rusty maintains a DWPS? Does he design these runs with even notes per string? Or does he swipe sometimes? It’s so fast I can’t tell. lol. Also… is this wrist deviation with some elbow in this clip?
I’m not meaning to lead off topic. Maybe this is answered in a Rusty thread already.
Thanks
Up close Rusty’s movement is uwps even if his grip gives a dwps appearance. Molly Tuttle looks this way occasionally so it is possible given how the pick rests against the fingers.
Rusty doesn’t really swipe but he is sometimes not totally synchronized so you get extra or missing pickstrokes per string. This is why it can sound a little less clear at times. This also happens in Marshall Harrison’s playing and we have a chapter on the comparison here:
https://troygrady.com/interviews/marshall-harrison/analysis-chapter-8-stacked-gilberts/
I like Rusty’s stuff, he knows knows a lot about harmony and has cool ideas, and does a lot more mechanically than just hyper picking. Even if the pure alternate stuff is not as locked up as a Batio, he comes the closest to making use of these hyper speeds in a way you could actually use in a band / writing scenario.
3 Likes
As great as he is, I find Rusty’s playing so “macho” that it’s scary: after finishing the riff I expected him to drop the guitar and come out of my PC screen “The Ring” style and beat the crap out of me …ok back on topic 
@TheCount wow that is some fast picking! The closed fist approach reminded me of Rowan J Parker’s method for hyper picking, he mentions that he developed this shortly after his meeting with Roy Marchbank, and after watching CTC as well:
2 Likes
Yes I enjoy Rusty’s stuff. It’s not all technique like some accuse him of. I think there’s some great stuff on his solo album. Outworld are quite fun too! Is the Code archive stuff still available to buy @Troy? I think some of that would be helpful to this!
And @tommo, I meant to post one of Rowan’s videos. I like the guy a lot, we’ve spoken many times and he’s the only other person I’ve seen do this closed hand position, and the guy can seriously pick.
Interesting @milehighshred talks about tilting his hand at an upward angle (not to be confused with upward pick slanting) to get the hyper speed. It’s not what I do, but when I try that position, it almost feels like the same muscles are being tensed, so maybe we’re both activating the same muscle in a different way.
You can see that in action here (i’m sure you’ve all seen this video though!) See his tutorial I posted in the Martello thread for more information on that.
1 Like
Sure totally. Make sure it’s set to 240fps mode, if he’s got it, and do a couple tests to make sure you have enough light. 240 and even 120 photographs every second can be pretty dark if you’re not near an open window or you don’t have access to a strong light. If you do have a strong light, throw it out of frame on the right side and you can get a pretty decent looking one-light setup:
I don’t want to cramp your style but if you can use short sleeves, you’ll get a better view of what type of upper forearm and upper arm activation is happening. And as long as you’re at it, I would do a slightly wider shot, full profile (i.e. not just neck-down), and a closeup. They can be separate takes, that’s fine. But you’ll get some nice stuff you can cut between that way.
1 Like
I’ll do this tomorrow (we’ve hit darkness here in England so the video wouldn’t look that clear) My room has a massive window so that should give plenty of light. I’ll see if I can make the sat nav holder I’ve got function as a makeshift magnet as well.
And yes, 'll make sure I lay off the Hendrix jacket for this video, possibly not helpful for muscle analysis!
1 Like
Same muscles are activated, yes. Cocking the wrist back is just how I find it easiest to flex the brachioradialis. That’s why I suggest doing that in the video you’re talking about.
2 Likes
Interesting. I can sort of do the same thing with that method (only just tried it!) It’s a little unrefined and not quite as fast but with a bit of practice I could probably get that to work. Can you do the same movement with the closed hand position?
1 Like
Damn right!!! “post must be at least 20 characters”
2 Likes
The slow-motion stuff is uploading to drop box and will be with Troy soon!
Here’s a short camera test I did with the makeshift magnet!
2 Likes
Interesting to see how your thumb is resting on the upper string(s). I tried this last night and got a small blister on the side of my thumb (knuckle closest to the nail) within just a couple of minutes of experimenting.
1 Like
I don’t think it’s constantly touching. I hadn’t noticed that at all actually, but it certainly makes some contact and occasionally brushes against the string, but not with every note, that would hurt!
2 Likes
I can confirm. 
Eeeeeeeeeheheheheheheeeee!!! Awesome videos Count.
https://vimeo.com/246603812
@milehighshred I can’t feel what I think is a brachioradialis… the muscle on the backhand side of forearm is huge though. Is that it? From this pic, it looks like it’s on the palm side of forearm. I don’t have a muscle there. 
What’s up @Frylock are you and count UWPS to ride that thumb there? Is John UWPS doing it?
“post must be at least 20 characters”
1 Like
Can’t speak for @TheCount or @milehighshred , but I’m UWPS when I try this.
To find the brachioradialis, sit at a heavy table or desk, make a fist under the table, and try to lift the table with the flat “top” of the fist where your thumb and the side of your index finger are (like the place where the business end of an axe handle would come out the top of your grip). The muscle near the elbow that should start sticking up as you press against the underside of the table is the brachioradialis.
2 Likes
I am upward pickslanting, and I think John is too. I can’t get the same movement with a downward slant for some reason.
2 Likes
Awesome stuff! What is that you’re using for the makeshift magnet?
Just took a look at the files. Couple things:
-
The camera framing you’re using here in this test is a little better in one respect - more field of view of the pick / string contact. In some the clips you sent over, the pick/string contact is occasionally cut off below the bottom of the video. This is mainly due to the camera being super close to the picking. A little farther back would solve that. However the landscape orientation on the Dropbox clips is a better use of screen real estate than the vertical framing here. A combination of the two would be the best of both worlds: landscape framing, but a little farther back so there’s a clear view of the pick and the string, more toward the center of the recorded video. Both of these have the added benefit of allowing more arm visibility, which is useful when looking at movements.
-
Did you use iPhoto / Photos to grab the files? The files the phone actually records are .mov format, not .m4v. Whenever you see .m4v, that’s an indication that the files have been modified. This happens because Photos tries to “bake in” the slow motion, with a tiny bit of normal speed video at the start and end of the clip, followed by a little speed ramp to get to the slow motion. Instead, when we look at these files, we pull the raw high-speed files right into Final Cut. We can then add speed ramps wherever we want. To get the raw files out of Photos, select one or more videos, then go into the “File” menu and choose “Export” -> “Export unmodified original for 1 (or however many) videos”. That will dump the originals to a folder somewhere.
Otherwise great stuff here. Edit: Tone and pick attack on the recorded audio you sent over sound great - confident and consistent. This will make for some killer hard rock lead technique when you get it under control. And it does appear to be uwps which is cool because that means it probably is usable for multi-string playing, should anyone ever develop the insane fretting speed it would take to do so.
But I wouldn’t even worry so much about the actual hyper speed aspect of this just yet. Developing synchronization and clean string switching at lower speeds is a pre-requisite for developing it at faster ones. Considering you can now reach this speed, can you also move at every speed beneath that? Or are there gaps between “classic fast” and “hyper fast”?
2 Likes