The guitar doesn't fit - issues with size and position

Technique Critique
#41

Slightly peeking out. The pushing is mostly coming from the base of the index finger. It makes a little shelf for the neck to rest on, at exactly the place Billy’s doing it up above. The thumb curl adds some stability, but isn’t absolutely required most of the time.

There is very little pushing actually required, though. It’s more like ‘guiding’. (Both in the sense that it guides the neck through space, but also in that it guides my hand along the neck. If I don’t lose contact with the guitar on that spot at the base of my index, I can slide to a faraway fret position without looking, with noticeably more accuracy.) My guitar rests easily at any angle from totally front-facing to totally right-facing without help. I don’t need to push on it with my right arm at all for the neck to angle forward. I just move it there and it stays. I play most comfortably at about a 45 degree angle. These are all just observations about myself, not prescriptions for you. Just find easy.

I always felt like my problem was neck dive, not forward angle (that’s what I’m calling it), because of the supination thing. That went away with this grip because I usually don’t have to supinate any more. When I absolutely need classical position, I use a subtle lean. Maybe it’s actually similar to the Joey Taffola thing, now that I think about it. But I don’t use my right arm that much, I mostly just crouch little and twist or lean to the right. I don’t get tension from it, but I get to dance a little.

Here’s a few pictures from my perspective, in case they help. It’s definitely more about the feel, though. It should feel stable, relaxed, and neutral.

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FWIW, I was doing all kinds of crazy shit with my strap to hold the neck up until this clicked.

2 Likes
#42

If you want the neck to angle up more, move the lower strap button up. See the Chris Broderick guitar model and Kiesel vader to see where the strap button should be. This is a very easy mod and will help you get the guitar where you like it. If you don’t like it, you can always put it back. But you’ll have a hole in the guitar there, and if that bothers you, don’t do it.

With that position, can you sweep C#minor arpeggio 5th string root? That’s hard for me there because of the stretch.

The other mod is to put the upper strap button behind the horn. This allows the guitar to pop out a bit without twisting up the strap – the guitar strap attaches with outer part of the strap facing the audience. But the upper strap button behind the horn also causes the guitar to tilt forward when free hanging, as if the guitar itself is leaning. That’s not much of a problem for me but it is something to consider.

#43

Thanks for your advice. Again, I consider this a solved problem. I’m not sensitive to neck angle anymore. Good luck.

#44

I’m not reading all the posts in this thread so excuse me if this has been mentioned, but try playing with the guitar on your left leg when you’re seated. If I play seated with the guitar on my right leg my right forearm hurts and my left hand gets closer to my body. Try the left leg with a strap.

#45

We’re not talking about practicing seated. And again, playing seated hurts my right shoulder. :neutral_face:

#46

As you can see, there is not enough space when I get higher up on the neck.

Focusing on this physical challenge, the struggle of space, makes playing overall harder because I focus my mind on it, thereby neglecting other important things like muting and picking or even what’s the next chord.

#47

Isn’t this meant to be a part of the other thread discussing the hand jammed against the guitar? Seems like a good place to put it and get to the bottom of it…

#48

I moved this into this thread since it’s basically the same issue. Two small requests:

Please try to keep “Technique Critique” videos around about 20 - 30 seconds, just demonstrating the phrase in question. That makes it easy to just hit ‘play’ and find the playing.

And second, please keep commentary in text form in the post not in the video. I know this requires more typing and it’s sometimes easier to just talk to a camera. But when the commentary is in written form, it’s much easier for those who want to help you to select parts of it and quote them in their replies.

Thanks!

1 Like
#49

I put this as a new thread for a reason. The reason is that I want to focus on the performance of this lick, as featured in your lesson. That way, others can comment on relevant material. This thread is long, so people most don’t want to read all of it until this video post, as has been stated by other commenters, and it also has some passive shitposting (for civility and pragmatism, I’m not raising an issue on that). Please unlock the other thread and delete the post here. Thanks.

I’ll try and limit the talking and put more of the description in the text.

#50

Dude, you spent most of the video talking about the issue discussed in this thread… if you post in another thread it might be a good idea to be more specific on what you want a critique on.

Anyway, for what its worth (and I’m not trolling here), but a lot of the higher fretted stuff sounds just as good if not better than then the lower fretted bits especially the one at 1:15 and even the one at 1:31 was almost there. I’m not disputing how it feels to you as only you would know, but to listen to there isn’t much in it. Quick question, do you lift weights? (you look like you workout/keep in shape). I have read before (possibly in this forum) about whether lifting weight can affect your playing - might be worth looking into, because you mention above tension pain and lack of flexion and extension. You do look tense, regardless of what area of the neck you are playing on.

#51

I don’t have an axe (pun intended!) to grind one way or another, but if we’re talking about the same fretting hand crowding / neck positioning issue, then I would vote to keep this clip in this thread.

In general, “Technique Critique” threads tend to be long, containing multiple updates from the OP on the same topic over time. That’s just how we do it. New players will show up, do a search, find them, and read through the whole thread when they find issues that are similar to what they’re also struggling with. So I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

#52

Where I missed the first note. No, that one sounds the worst to me because I hear the attempted and missed first note. Best one was @ 0:42. The one right after that, I didn’t hold the E note long enough. Gotta get the most out of each note, not run off early to play the next thing.

I don’t really lift weights other than very light work for PT/rehab stuff for injuries. I feel it makes me too tense. But I do use my hands a lot. Gripfighting is a little hard on the hands.

#53

gripfighting like Judo/Jiu-jitsu? That shit is notoriously harsh on the hands and forearms, due to the gripping of the clothing etc. No wonder your hands and arms are 'effed!

On ‘That pedal Show’ Dan has a vlog for guitarists that do Jiu-jitsu, might be worth a look:

Guitar is the number one reason that I don’t do boxing training- value my hands too much!!!

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#54

You’ll think I’m kidding, but maybe try stuffing a small pillow under your shirt to imitate a beer belly. That will create some more distance between your spine and the guitar, and help you evaluate if that dimension is really your problem. It might also make it easier to experiement with some different positions where the guitar gets rotated around the axis of your spine instead of being fixed directly in front of you.

Overall, it looks to me like the main root of your problem is that the way you wear the guitar is forcing you to flex your wrist too much. Wearing the guitar higher and pointing the headstock more skyward will make it easier to relocate the high frets further to the left edge of your torso, as well as allowing you to fret with a less flexed left wrist, but you say that doing this causes pain in your right shoulder. I’d try to identify what it is about that type of positioning that produces pain in your right shoulder, and see if there’s some sort of compromise position that allows you to achieve a position similar to this without causing pain in your right shoulder. A more “headstock to the sky” orientation ought to allow you to figure out a position where your picking hand can still be relatively low (to aid your right shoulder comfort), while still putting the high frets in an easier to reach position and orientation. One source of discomfort with “headstock to the sky” could be the balance of the guitar. Adding weight to the bridge-side strap button might help shift the balance to make “headstock to the sky” easier to achieve.

#55

Wearing the guitar higher hurts my right shoulder by grinding.

Wearing the guitar higher does not relocate the high frets to the left edge of my torso; it raises them up. That’s not to say that’s not beneficial for the left hand — it is, as the arm angles upward, giving more space.

Also, getting the higher frets closer to the left hand helps — you’ve got the right goal in mind— but raising the guitar doesn’t do that.

I have used a cut, taped piece of memory foam. It helped. I also relocated the strap buttons as described earlier. Then, I started designing a guitar body shape, contoured back, with the strap buttons in the right places, and headless to be extremely light and allow the headstock to point upward.

After using the foam to decide about how far away from my torso the guitar should be, I removed and discarded it.

That was about the time I learned how to short the corn, around November. Liquidated and broke, I was forced to cancel the guitar project.

For the guitar I designed, the body was to be just a bit longer, so that the whole guitar would be shifted left 2 cm.

#56

The best take away from that video is that gripfighting, especially with the gi, is hard on the hands. For limiting damage to hands, choose Muay Thai (or boxing), then nogi jits, then BJJ w gi.

Fortunately I looove Muay Thai best. So fun :smiley: but I also like BJJ and the teacher is fun & cool, so it’s a bit sad to avoid.

#57

Well hopefully through CTC, you might find that the BJJ impact is less problematic than we might be fearing. Best of luck!!

#58

Ok, I’m going to try this(pause) imho(this also applies to myself btw) you are using way to much energy for the sweep on the left hand fretting side(probably the right as well), which is especially apparent fretting towards the bridge(above, or at the 12th). The pressure applied has to be so precise and quick that one doesn’t have time to tense up( think of harmonics), just enough to get a sound of differentiation(like drums-not 12 separate tones), the pressure leading to the specific expression is a byproduct of this in other words the licks don’t come first(not really) and you have more than enough for that.
What I am talking about is speed fretting and like speed picking(I’m sure you can do that), it has an effortlessness that is irreducible(it can’t be done slowly), try it on one string or a particular sweep you like, turn the amp up real loud because this activity is like a “not doing” doing, meaning barely perceptible(at first).

I just took my knobs and pots off and left the volume pot on(much further away from the strings) with no knob. To say this made a difference in about two days is a huge understatement(it has been a revelation). One last thing until recently I could not play sitting down(except strumming and such) at all, this was because the position requires an awareness of touch and feel that only a few can have from birth, but this awareness can can be developed.

I would like to say more. If you are interested I will.

#59

I’m surprised to find a discussion about BJJ here. I’ve been reading guitar forums more again lately because I’ve been spending so much time thinking about jiu-jitsu and discussing it online.

I think a lot of the finger damage BJJ players get is from training methodology and being too stubborn with their grips, but there are definitely some games that make you more prone to finger injuries. My instructor has very poor dexterity and finger strength from years of training gripfighting with the mindset that it was about taking your grips as strongly as you can and trying to hang on to it as a training partner explosively strips them away. Now he says that good gripfighting is about being dynamic, switching between grips to stay ahead of your opponent and moving yourself to render their grips ineffective.

I don’t play much Spider guard or De La Riva. Those positions are notorious for leading to finger injuries, and they don’t really translate to NoGi.

I think NoGi is safe for the fingers, and it teaches you to play positions without relying too much on gripping fabric.

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#60

Black Star Lick. Difficulty is in left hand and hand synchronization. I build this up from just the first ornament to landing the note on the B string, to the whole lick.

My L hand has a lot of tension and you can see the extensors working hard here. I get more stiff and sore by practicing and that kind of makes me stiffer and less in control. My left hand feels smashed against the back of the neck.

(As you can see by watching the video, I’ve offset the guitar around the right side of my body to give the left hand more space.)