Just to anticipate what’s probably coming - “what’s new here? this thread’s just a rehash of stuff everyone on this forum says…” The ‘forensic analysis’ part, yes; the 6-7 months banging on one lick or solo - that, I think, actually runs counter to a lot of what I read here.
@Yaakov I’m not sure if you’re blurring the lines between developing technique and learning a riff.
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Not sure I understand… Putting your question in the context of the guys who said they spent 6-7 months on their thing, I don’t think you’d say they were learning the lick (@Interestedoz ) or solo (@Twangsta) for that long (if by ‘learning’ you mean what I think you mean).
That’s technique work in my book. Do I misread you?
(If you’re referring to my previous comment, what I meant was that a lot of people on this forum are clearly against massive rep for months on end. And that’s fine, if something else works for them. But it’s cool to see that one-thing-only - another way of saying massive [though not robotic/brainless] repetition - has some proponents, too. Especially because it rings true for me, theoretically.)
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I don’t consider @Twangsta’s experience as learning one thing - there are plenty of licks in a YJM song. @Interestedoz example of pretty much spending that period of time on just one lick seems more like what you were looking for…
@Twangsta, great playing btw!
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I stumbled across the idea here in a post about learning methods, I started incorporating it into my routines a year after spending 8 to 10 hours a day, often almost every waking hour too. I neglected everything else for a year, but I couldn’t sustain that due to other commitments building up. The 18 min thing just worked, it can be quite an effort to play just one thing for 18 mins with full concentration, the key is not to expect returns until you have a nights sleep, and also end your set in at least 5 clean laps ( oval NASCAR racing analogy).
Yeah, exactly, one day it just clicks and boom.
edit2: happiness at that moment, then you wake up next day and realize it wasn’t such a big deal, to other people you may seem a bit unhinged 
and then kind of down again, back to the grind till the next aha moment. It never ends!
Took 4 months in my case, to get the upward escape flying. I’ve been playing for more than 20 years. To internalize the motion and make it come natural takes a while. I’d be playing various sequences, but also a certain amount of time on the one-thing daily. I’d go bat #h!t crazy if I did the one-thing all day, for one I’m terrified of grinding my frets down in one spot, much like old LCD pixel burnin 
I’d mix it up as I said earlier but I do believe I’m referring to one mechanic that I’m working on at a time, but I’m not wearing my frets down in one spot so I move it around and change keys usually playing to a subsection of a track I"m working on in a loop, transcribe for the win every time. Back then it was the Mac any tune software.
So back to the one thing, for me, it’s a technique first. But the other side is I’m always learning a song bar by bar, when I am that is And if I hit a section that needs some grinding, I can easily spend a month on a single bar.
So the thing I’m looking for is to see that new one-thing technique creep into all my improve, I don’t consider it internalized till that happens. And the thing with Malmsteen is he’s not got that many “things”. It’s a bit like a RPG with a skill tree, one build on the other. But the main key is using those skill items unconsciously. Some times a side quest comes along (2 string arps) that needs attention, but it all goes into the same tree eventually. For me improving is where it’s at with plenty of stolen/rehashed/remixed “licks” phrased in your own way. So I try to reflect that in my practice for sanity and pure joy.
Thank you
edit1: I don’t know if anybody has a one way only mantra, linear gameplay with some elements of open world is necessary, but stay close to the path, also I try not to be religious about any one idea, it leads to foot in the mouth disease and can limit your growth. Messy is where it will always be, embrace it.
I’m really struggling with a more theoretical approach to playing now, music with brains if you will, it’s all triads for me now, painting the chord tones by muscle memory can be open world hell. But yet tackling a song bar by bar, it’s hard to keep them both going at the same time, needs some discipline, but there can also be a masked ‘method’ to the madness. I’m impulsive, helps with improvising but keeps progress erratic.
@Twangsta— unbelievable playing, and such thoughtful commentary as well. Cheers!
Re practice time lengths: a great time management tool is “Pomodoro technique”, where you focus on one single thing for 25 mins, then break. I use it for focusing as well. Z
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Referring back to my comment above about concentration being difficult for long periods - isn’t 18 mins a statistically significant number regarding attention span? Isn’t that the reason why TED talks are that length - something along the lines of "long enough for a speaker to get an idea across, but short enough for the audience to assimilate the information. Personally, I’ve always found the 50 min mark my max time for max focus.
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Thanks everyone for the questions - will try get them all.
yes I do have the early attempts recorded. They are not bad - but they were slow. 74% of Yngwie,s speed.
This is why I think it is pretty hard. The lick is:
7 seconds long
56 notes
15 string changes
95% of the lick played at 190 bpms
every note (except 2 ghost notes) are played absolutely cleanly
Whatever notes are “pulled off” are not audibly discernible - so you either replicate that somehow or you have to pick every note
If you miss a note (particularly in the fast turnaround phrases) you immediately break the flow and don’t sound like Yngwie.
I have not heard anybody execute this lick at Yngwie level on youtube. No one. Though many have tried. There are 2 aspects to early Yngwie - (a) speed (b) accuracy
Without (a) you will sound like slow Yngwie. Without (b) you won’t sound like Yngwie.
Strangely, learning the lick has NOT significantly improved any other areas of my playing - including alt picking other licks.
what has changed from take 1 to 30000 is speed. This has improved approximately from 74% to 93% of Yngwie,s speed. My accuracy is unchanged (which surprised me
-it was quite good at the start). Keeping accuracy high when speeds go up is very hard.
I had to do massive analysis on the transcription - which resulted in a change about halfway through when I realised the second ghost note is absolutely not played.
This caused a complete rework of the how i approached the second half of the lick. As I am alt picking it (can’t full economy pick for various reasons) this actually worked in my favour as it enabled me to essentially economy pick the second half of the lick (exit the B string on an upstroke and beginning the second turnaround on a downstroke on the E string)) while still alt picking
E|------------------17–19–21–19–17----------19–17----------------17----------
B|------19–21-------------------------------21--------------19–21--------21–19–
this also enables what I call the “run down” to begin on a downstroke
I could write a novel on the challenges I have had to overcome to get it anywhere near sounding like Yngwie. Unbelievable.
Listening back to early attempts from Sept last year what I have noticed is that this has essentially been a speed game. My overall accuracy to begin with was acceptable.
this is a great point. I’m definitely learning a riff/ lick - not a technique at the moment. I am planning to deep dive the CTC Yngwie stuff in more detail when I get some time to look at it more from a full technique point of view.
I am not as good at Yngwie as Troy or Twangsta - this is simply my humble attempt to play what I think is a great lick the same as Yngwie.
Here is the lick in soundslice - thanks to @JakeEstner for doing this.
I’m using a different transcription after much trial and error.
Thakns for the replies veryone!
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This is not a surprise to me when thinking of my own past experience with focusing on just one thing, hence why I asked.
Thanks for your breakdown of it, gave me some food for thought.
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Could be you’re right. But the nature of shred, being made up of many repetitive patterns - could it be that those thousands of notes in the Yngwie piece actually break down into a relatively small number of patterns? (I don’t have the ear or theory background to know, but if so, it would be somewhat closer to what @Interestedoz was doing.)
Like the guy digging his way out of prison - the 10,000th scoop of dirt may physically feel like all the rest, and he may detect no progress, but it’s the one that breaks ground and now he’s free.
That’s an encouraging thought for someone getting ready to commit to this kind of thing.
That jibes with what I read here and there about great players & this perseverative practice (~one-thing-only) thing - but again, they never seem to give as much detail as I’m getting from this thread. I give you guys the credit for the woodshedding - but maybe I get a little for my stubborn questioning;)
Lightbulb moment… I finally see the connection between loving metal guitar and gaming!! 
(seriously - sounds like similar problem-solving going on)
Hard for me. There is, after all, method within that madness/messiness. But I hear you. (lol - hadn’t yet read your own reference to method/madness when I wrote that)
That’s a bit discouraging;) I hope you’re wrong about that. Maybe just too humble? @PickingApprentice said likewise, though. Surprising to me. Why could this be…??
This you said in agreement with @Pepepicks66. Lost me there. All the work you’ve done to jump 20% of Yngwie’s speed (!) was related to improved technique. Can you explain what you mean?
@Yaakov I think it’s possible to have great technique and still have to work for a long time to get a song / passage down (even if it only has techniques you’re good at), especially if your goal is to be able to repeat it at will with a high degree of accuracy.
To resonate with @Interestedoz, I worked on a Shawn Lane riff for a good month or so, mostly at around the 120 bpm tempo, then one day I was able to play it full speed. Obviously my technique was already there, it’s just hard to remember / execute all the changes at that speed. Now I have to work back up to it if I want to play it.
Yes of course, but I didn’t think that was what you were aiming for with this thread- I thought you were interested in doing just one lick/phrase (sorry if I misunderstood).
I first read it as Rocket Propelled Grenade! Lol.
My instinct is that what ever was mechanically improved isn’t that prevelant in the rest of @Interestedoz’s playing?
For example, spend 6 months on YJM picking, but usual playing doesn’t conform to the same system. I think that is the ‘danger’ of no variety when trying to bake a technique in. My own example is with economy picking - I’m crap at it and tried to nail one lick. I did it well to the point where I can whip through it really fluently, but nothing else. Even the same picking pattern but different fretting is a no-go. Its like trying to speak another language, but I only know the word “potato”.
That would make sense. We’ll have to hear from @Interestedoz to know if that was the case. I’ll jump the gun, though, and offer that maybe it is in fact back to square one for him with a new lick - but instead of 6 months, this time it will take 3. And less time still with the next lick.
This would address @Pepepicks66’s point, too - again, that your solid technique may not obviate a lot of hard work on the next new lick - but the climb is less steep each time. …??
The thing it’s it’s hard to control that madness, just keep at it, the universe always meets you half way.
As you move along you get better at understanding the best learning paths that work for you, but you can never control the madness entirely, that would remove the mystery and that would be no fun
It sounds like descending sequences when I heard it earlier today, that mechanic is central to a lot of meat and potato rudiments, apply that lick to regular scales, descending/ascending 4s 5s 6ez etc over a looped section from a back track of choice, its a ton of fun.
edit: once your more comfortable, then come back to that specific application and nail it. This is what I do all the time. That way you own the trick.
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Thanks brother 
Although this seems like narrow practice - 1 sequence - there is all kinds of technique challenges presented in it. So it is strange to me that I don’t find any particular improvements in my overall playing.
When I got my legato happening (Vinnie Moore style) I was able to take that technique and use it everywhere across all kinds of licks and combos.
But alternate picking for me is the opposite. When I learn a lick it doesn’t seem that transferable. For example - when I have this sequence down - it won’t suddenly enable me to play the Paul Gilbert lick.
It seems to be lick by lick rather than an overall technique that allows you to play all licks.
As mentioned above to @PickingApprentice when I go back and listen to the earlier versions - I don’t see any huge improvement in technique other than speed increase - which I guess you could argue is still technique related!
I remember having a discussion with @tommo about how you get to a point where improvement is incredibly incremental - and sometimes barely noticeable. You end up posting different versions of something on the forum - and people can’t tell the difference! LOL Sometime big change is needed for big improvement leaps. But really here - I am almost there with this lick - some more work to do but heading in right direction.
one of the biggest challenges from me is the sheer speed of it! Just when you think you have it - you sync it to the Yngwie version and I’m still lagging behind! LOL It is a brutal punishing way to compare yourself - but that is the challenge I have set. It is like running a 100 metre sprint and Yngwie keeps beating me all the time!
thanks for replies everyone
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In a situation like this - where you are 90% there but also kind of on a plateau, I’d recommend doing something else for a while. But not just a random other thing, something that uses similar mechanics perhaps. When you go back to the “original thing” after having done the “different but related thing”, in some cases the original thing will feel better. Worst case scenario, you’ll at least know 2 pieces of music instead of one
At the cost of repeating myself too much: in general my current understanding of motor learning is that you want to feed as much variety as possible to your motor system - within constraints of course. E.g. if your objective is to learn “Yngwie picking”, you may be better off studying 5-10 ynwgie licks instead of a single one. And you may be better off not spending huge amounts of time on each of these 5, because within a single session you quickly get to the point of diminishing returns.
This is at least what I gathered from the interviews @Troy has done with Pietro Mazzoni and Noa Kageyama.
Edit: I’m as guilty as the next guitarist of repeating the same licks ad nauseam. So once again I’m also talking to myself here
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I wonder if the same thing happens to people HEARING the same advice over and over again… he asks apropos of nothing…
Hmmm… What did he mean by that??
Important caveat, @tommo - though you’ll likely agree. Switch things up with some frequency, ‘feed variety’ to the motor system - but don’t give up on the lick merely because you’re bored with it. ‘Did I do everything I could think of with this to make it better?’ Sounds to me like @Interestedoz and @Twangsta could sit on one thing for so long because they were asking this question. While the lick remained the same (the ‘song…’?.. whatever;), the work did not.
The results speak for themselves. This is something that would be the most valuable part of any instructional book, and yet I don’t think I’ve seen such advice in any that I’ve looked through.
This may seem like a no-brainer to you. @JB_Winnipeg . But it’s something that better players (probably yourself included) seem to understand much better than newer guys. There are literally millions of former guitar wannabes in the U.S. alone, people who ‘used’ to play guitar, and I’d say it has an awful lot to do with not understanding what I describe above. I know I didn’t, on three other instruments.
[Probably has something to do with me being pretty academic. My experience of learning is: teach me; give me some practice; I’ll demonstrate competence; give me an ‘A’; repeat. That worked for lots of things in school. Guitar - not so much.]
I’m starting to get it, finally, through this line of questioning (in this and other threads I’ve posted). So again, I appreciate the feedback - and the willingness to repeat yourself, @tommo;)