You’ve got to be joking lol. Steve does NOT pick softly. Like at all. You can hear the crack of like every downstroke. We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree on that. But one thing that is a fact is that he also swipes quite a bit. Darryl Gabel picks softly.
I do know for a fact evh who uses essentially the same picking as Steve played very soft at times and hard others. This is from the middle finger grip and the way the hand rests on the bridge.
I also think a lot of that crack is from the relatively flat angle of pick attack. It’s still very light
Tho both evh and steve did escape motions, with no ring finger. If you just learn the escapes you’ll be set.
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Definitely. But you’ve said you’ve tried everything and that you’ve been at this for like what, 6 years? Is trying a softer attack just something you’re not willing to do?
Anecdotally, I can crosspick these things you’re trying, and if I upped the attack, it would flat out fall apart.
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Dude please post examples of stuff at extremely high tempos so I can see what it looks like when you do it. Like play the head of Tumeni Notes at tempo.
@WhammyStarScream
I know the escapes they just don’t seem to work at high speeds for me. And the current thinking around here is that if you can’t immediately do it fast than it’s wrong.
@RobertFlores Was trying it out at tempo yesterday.
I have other fast crosspicking stuff around, I’ll post more in that thread probably tomorrow.
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I really hope not to offend. But it sounds like there’s plenty of swiping in there and it sounds like you’re still figuring this thing out yourself. When you said you could do it I was expecting a flawless example. I appreciate the input tho man.
@WhammyStarScream If that were the case I wouldn’t have put in the effort required to learn how to pick with an entirely different grip than what I’d been using the majority of my 16+ years playing.
Then all I can honestly recommend is study those escapes. Your index picking is decent. Do you like more rounded picks? I find they help a lot in clearing the strings.
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It’s true it’s recommended to start fast. But that’s usually to find a motion that works fast.
So at first it should be able to go fast but will likely be sloppy with possible swiping and missed notes etc etc, It is then recommended to slow down a bit so that it’s still fast, but you have a chance to clean it up. Then try it faster again.
I’m far from an expert, but this is what I’ve seen as a recommended starting point.
I think your clip is extremely fast and might not be able to solve the problem practicing it only at that speed.
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Sorry for the delay in response. I work weekends. Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to reply. Hopefully I’ll figure this out before I’m old.
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You seen Troy’s recent video?
He’s got good comments in the description too.
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Yeah I saw it weeks ago when it was posted on IG. Just bummed me out cause he can figure this stuff out and I cannot if my life depended on it.
With the way you played with your index I’m pretty confident you will.
You’ve obviously got the skill to play actual music. The shred chase pisses us all off lol. I’ve stressed about it for years, I find my playing improving during my more relaxed times tho. So the stress is acually improving my playing over time, even though it’s often feeling like smashing against a seemingly immovable wall. If you can laugh at it n enjoy the grind you’ll get there by default. I think you have to become a sadist in a way towards yourself. To enjoy the journey. Grinding can be fun with the right mindset. Just look at MMOs. I grind in lotro, but it’s about enjoying the environment and atmosphere with a goal the reach, thats life.
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Apologies if I may be forgetting this, I haven’t scanned the other threads in a while. But do you already have basic single escape stuff working? Like Paul Gilbert sixes, or pentatonic licks. You know, the usual suspects?
If so, is the issue here that you’re just trying to play certain stock phrases like the paul Gilbert pattern and you’re having issues with that? Or are you also having issues with single escape phrases too?
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Hey there Troy! Sorry to all if I come off like a douche. Sometimes I get really frustrated when I think I’ve figured something out and put it under the magnifying glass of slowmo technology just to find out it ain’t right. Yes I can do the basic single escape stuff. I think I may have figured a few things out over the past few days after a few legit mental break downs lol.
I believe if we look at all the reference material I’ve posted over the last 1-2 years here it looks like I was having some forearm rotation and thumb joint involvement in my picking motions. I’m trying to get more strict wrist motions because I desperately want crosspicking to be second nature.
I spent this week watching the primer material over and over again. Trying to get back to fundamentals and working on both forms of wrist single escape. DSX and USX. I often had struggled with DSX cause having had focused on mostly metal early in my career, I had developed the aforementioned rotational mechanic as a by product of downpicking and gallops/chugs. Oddly this also presented an issue with USX as well and I often find myself having to watch to make sure I’m deviating at the wrist and not rotating with the forearm.
I THINK I have a better grasp of the single escape motions. Now I’m trying to figure out how to get the DSX motion happening with a slightly more supinated forearm so I can A) get both escapes happening and B) so I can get closer to crosspicking with a trigger style grip.
Here’s DSX on a simple scale. After really studying and following all directions and watching the Al Di Meola wrist motion video here’s what I have. Still kinda new even tho it’s similar to my original motion. Looks like Al/John/Paul as well.
Slowmo DSX:
Here’s me trying to not use forearm rotation for USX:
Slowmo USX:
After watching this I think I need to actually supinate less.
Tumeni at 80% with Morse Grip and the Ring Finger Tucked:
Slowmo A minor from Tumeni:
Sorry about the graininess.
6 string Morse muted with all fingers tucked:
Sorry about the hand getting cut out.
Slowmo:
Hopefully this gives a better perspective. My goal is still to have a right hand that can pick anything but I want to learn how to do it all from the wrist like Andy but not pronated like David cause I want muting for the Technical Death Metal stuff. That’s another challenge. Lets say I finally figure out how to cross pick from the wrist while supinated, than I have to learn how to mute. I find it like impossible to mute in the Al Di Meola setup.
Thanks to everyone who’s trying to help! Hopefully I didn’t forget anything important here.
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Sorry quick digression:
IMO, if you have to resort to slomo video analysis to reveal a “mistake”, but the thing sounds and feels good at full speed, then it’s not really a mistake worth worrying about.
We of course all have different values and objectives, but over-obsessing over tiny details could be counterproductive in the bigger picture.
I’m pretty sure we would find some swipes in Steve Morse’s “Tumeni Notes” recording if we really went all out forensic on it. But in the bigger picture it sounds awesome. And I would be willing to bet that this is because Steve Morse’s main focus was the overall sound, phrasing, rhythm etc., not so much the worry of getting every note 100% clean.
YMMV obviously 
PS: I think this recent example is great!
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I remember when transcribing this in high school that I noticed some “slop” when I slowed down the recording (very relatively speaking here) and my guitar teacher was a die hard Morser and very offended at the notion, hah. Your comment made me curious, so I went here at 1/4 speed: Steve Morse - Tumeni Notes REH - YouTube
Right you are: at slow speed, we hear plenty of straight up errors, at tempo it sounds great. I didn’t put in the time to assess how many of the errors were righty vs left - majority of them actually seem lefty, but I think the point is still a good one to emphasize.
Sorry Robert - I know that’s probably not helpful to your specific scenario, but I think a useful thing to have ‘on file’ for anybody reading along.
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This may be me-specific but I’ve always considered Morse just a little sloppy compared to his contemporaries (Eric Johnson et al etc). I’ve also always really liked this about his playing though. There’s something very ‘human’ about it. He’s still relatively clean compared to the general public but those little nuances I always enjoyed. Like a way more technical but ‘less sloppy Jimmy Page’.
@JakeEstner I really think the point you bring up can and should apply to all of us. Yes, we should try to be as clean as possible but many of the monsters we’re emulating, when put under a microscope, aren’t as perfect as we thought. It’s like we’re holding ourselves to a higher standard than they hold themselves lol!
I think it actually could be a pretty helpful though. @RobertFlores has mentioned feeling bummed about some swipes. I understand them to be a part of Morse’s playing. There was some other thread on here where someone was asking for examples of players who employ ‘swiping’ and I threw out the usual names, but also mentioned Morse because I’d heard Troy mention Morse swipes. Troy replied and added a clarification that Morse swiping is not the same as Paul Gilbert swiping. He’s not doing it as a string changing mechanic, they are just ‘little mistakes’
Accepting this, emphasizing muting control and rolling with it may be a good recipe for some progress.
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