Upstroke VS Downstroke: Tommo's Mixed Escapes practice

Thanks for fishing this out @carranoj25! I tried the economy picking method, and while it seems faster, I find it difficult to control my timing. I know it’s in principle possible, and @Troy is great at every possible method for playing 3nps scales, for example. But I just haven’t figured out a way that works for me in a predictable way.

EDIT: for 3nps scale, that is. There are other types of licks where I do use little bits of economy picking and it works fairly well - but the sweeps are always a little rushed.

@tommo how would you play this lick? It’s from the Racer X song Living The Hard Way and I believe Paul plays this solo. The song is around 130bpm.

Wow that’s really fast and so beautifully played! Paul Gilbert remains one of the best.

I would put a healthy amount of distortion on, and use primary-DSX alternate picking with mixed escapes (to do the occasional upstroke string change). So it can’t be only elbow, for example.
Also, at this speed I’d just try to beast it and allow for a few swipes if need be.

Here is an attempt where I’m trying to use mainly wrist motions, with primary downstroke escape (DSX) I believe. It’s a hand setup I’ve been trying for the last couple of days, and it does not have my usual anchored fingers. Probably not nearly as fast as the record you posted :slight_smile:

PS: Paul tends to use thinner picks, so I reached for a Dunlop Flow Tortex 0.73

2 Likes

Wow, sounds perfect!! I can’t hear any swipes if indeed you are playing them. Normally they are most detectable on the lower strings.

Are you using TWPS on this lick?

1 Like

@tommo, this is why we love you and hate you in equal measure! :wink: That sounded great.

2 Likes

I would change fingering a bit and play it in pure USX manner (add one shift)… but after @tommo 's playing…
No, thank you ))

2 Likes

Gotta act quickly before @Troy feels compelled to apologise for this terminology :smiley:

Following the more modern approach/language of CTC, I am trying to not think too much about the slant of the pick - I am instead mainly focusing on achieving the correct pick trajectories. So here I’m going for a primary downstroke-escape wrist motion that occasionally does an upstroke escape when required. The slant of the pick is probably fairly neutral throughout (although I should check with a magnet and proper lighting) but I am not controlling that consciously - By feel I am just making sure that the pick does not grab the strings too much in either direction.

Also, to be perfectly honest, when I am going so fast I am not really able to micromanage things so much. What I described above is what I hope is happening, based on what I practice when I work at intermediate-fast speeds, say 100bpm-ish. I am basically just going for it and hoping that the muscle memory is in place to perform the line.

Finally, little bit of data: I checked in reaper that this is approx 125 bpm, so that’s great for my standards but I am about 5bpm slower than Paul. Not easy to reach his speeds, and the infuriating thing is that I’m sure this is pretty easy going for him :smiley:

2 Likes

Tommo’s approach is always the same. His primary picking motion is DSX, done with the wrist. This is what we used to call “upward pickslanting”. This is unclear though, because his pick isn’t really “slanted”, and moreover, doesn’t really tell someone who is learning about what they would need to do to replicate this. In actuality it’s just the wrist moving on a diagonal that is most relevant here. This type of motion will handle any string change where the downstroke is the final note, so those are taken care of automatically.

When he needs to do an upstroke string change, he doesn’t really “change the slant” — again, whatever that would even mean. He just changes the direction his wrist is moving. Here’s what that looks like in slow motion:

Edit: It looks like Instagram embeds are broken on the forum for the moment. In the mean time, you can click here https://www.instagram.com/p/B_EAzmLHVvq/ and that should work.

You’ll notice that right at the moment when the arrow switches to the semicircle, Tommo switches from the DSX motion to the double escape. That upstroke starts in the air, comes down and hits the string, then goes back up in the air again, creating a semicircle. That’s how he gets over the string on the upstroke. That’s the same thing he’s doing in the example you’ve tabbed out here, when he plays the 11th fret on the G string. That upstroke also starts in the air, comes down, hits the string, then goes back up in the air again. This is done entirely with wrist motion. The pick’s orientation doesn’t appear to change when he does this, because wrist motion doesn’t rotate. So if we were only looking at the “slant”, we might be like, hey, how is he doing that?

One other element to this is that when Tommo plays an upstroke that goes to a higher string, you’ll see the tiniest bit of forearm motion in addition to the wrist motion. This only happens in that one instance, where you have the ascending upstroke string change. Like the descending upstroke string change, it creates the semicircle motion, but it just does it with a little help from an additional joint. Andy Wood and many other wrist players also do this. This is probably what we would have called “changing the slant” in years past. But again, if you’re trying to learn, this would be pretty confusing because it only appears to happen some of the time. All the descending string changes aren’t working that way. So nowadays, for clarity, I try to just describe what he’s actually doing, i.e. Tommo engages a little forearm for upstroke string changes when they’re ascending.

I get why the old terminology was sticky and a lot of people watched those videos, but it doesn’t really do a good job of explaining what’s really going on in cases like this where you have great wrist players like Paul Gilbert, Andy Wood, Tommo, and others, who can mix and match different wrist motions on the fly. And more importantly, it doesn’t really help anyone know what to do to learn how to do these motions.

In dead simple terms, if you just learn how to do a DSX motion of any kind, whether that’s wrist or elbow, and pair that with great hand synchronization, and ignore any of the subtlties of whatever else is supposed to happen, you can get almost all the way to these kinds of scalar lines. The smoothness of the motion and the hand sync are the top priorities. The rest, whether it’s swiping or whatever, is way down the list.

3 Likes

thanks @Troy and @tommo for the explanations.

I just realised the old terminology sneaked into my post there! I studied the early videos so much they have embeded into my brain!

1 Like

There’s nothing wrong with the term per se, and we’ll still use it to describe a situation where the pick’s “slant” actually changes. Gambale-style sweeping is a good example of where that happens. But for something like scale playing, we were never really clear on what the term actually meant, since as you can see in Tommo’s case, there is no “slant”, really.

3 Likes