Using the thumb to change pickslant?

Playing Technique
#1

I’ve been trying to understand how Liverplate performs the alternate picking lick at the beginning of this clip:

(seconds 2-4)

In particular, the first 3 notes are played on the lower E string, the 4th note is played on the A string, then we go back to the E string. So how do we jump to the A string and back to E after a single note so smoothly?

After watching the clip at .25 speed a hundred times, I think I have an idea what’s happening. Watch Liverplate’s thumb: sometimes it is bent, sometimes it’s straightened.

My understanding is that when the thumb is bent, the pick is in a downstroke escape position. When it’s straightened, the pick is in an upstroke escape position.

Using the thumb like that to manipulate the pick allows changing the slant quickly and smoothly, which allows playing these 1-note-per-string tricks.

The thumb movement is subtle when going from E to A and back, but I think it’s there.

During the large sweeps he does the same: when sweeping up, he bends the thumb, when sweeping down, he straightens it. The short 3-string sweeps are done with thumb straightened all the time though (even when going up), probably to maintain upstroke escape when switching from B to G string.

Is my analysis correct? Is this common, are other guitarists using the thumb like that? Can I learn it just by copying the thumb motion? (I tried it, it seems to work, although I may also be unconsciously rotating my forearm which would be “cheating”)

(Note: I haven’t watched too many materials, mostly free stuff on youtube, I’m considering buying the primer. Sorry if this has been already discussed before.)

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#2

I don’t think that’s always going to be the case. There’s much more involved in getting clean escapes than whether or not the thumb is bent. Not saying that isn’t contributing to what you’re seeing happen here but it’s all more nuanced than that. At the most basic level, an escape is made by a particular joint motion. Some joints can only escape on downstrokes, some only on upstrokes. The wrist (which is what we see here) is interesting because it can handle either. And yes, some players are going to throw in the “finger” motion (bending/flexing of the thumb) to add even more layers.

To your point though, I do recall some videos where Troy mentioned that “thumb bump” as a way of identifying that someone was most likely a DSX player. I think in that case it was more of a side effect though. The bent thumb wasn’t causing the escape, it was just a way to dial in the right amount of edge picking and attack given the position some DSX players are in.

I guess my point is that I’ve definitely seen USX players who have a thumb bump, and DSX players who don’t, so we need to make sure we are paying attention to the path the pick traces and not get too caught up with other things that could become a red herring.

If you’ve seen only the free stuff, I can see where there are going to be plenty of gaps. The paid product (Pickslanting Primer) or full membership is highly recommended. It covers every possible picking scenario. It’s dense. And it’s not something that we’re to necessarily pursue entirely, as most excellent players have a core motion that they are awesome with, and they build a style around any implications of that motion. In that sense, there are going to be parts of the Pickslanting Primer that are more “FYI” only. The main goal of it is to help each player find their core motion (or the one that comes easiest to them) and then work outward from there. Once you know what fast effortless picking feels like, you can branch out and learn other motions since you’ll have a reference point. Also to be clear, if you do purchase the Primer, it is recommended to go through it from start to finish, in order.

Hey if it works, that’s all that matters! Imitating a great technique is an excellent way to go about this. As long as you’re pretty intuitive (i.e. have good sensory perception). The true test is if what you’re doing is capable of the speed you’re after and it doesn’t feel fatiguing.

2 Likes
#3

Thanks for the great answer @joebegly !

I’m currently experimenting a bit and it seems that it’s much harder to do a tremolo for me when trying to maintain both a bent thumb and an upstroke escape position. The problem for me when mixing these two properties is that the pick is slipping away from my fingers (and I’m using a Jazz III Max Grip). On the other hand, when I straighten the thumb during upstroke escape, the pick is “resting inside” my index finger joint and it’s not moving around.

This problem does not occur when I combine bent thumb with downstroke escape. Then, it seems that the pick is “resting inside” my thumb joint.

Maybe it’s gravity doing the job of preventing the pick from slipping away.

I’m still trying to decide which one to pick :smiley:

#4

Right. To all that I’d say “film it” just because it’s easy to think something is happening in our own playing and talking about it only might send us all down the wrong path.

The nice thing about purchasing the Primer is that you’ve got it for life. Any updates that happen, you’ve got them. And Troy updates it fairly often. If you’re on a budget, you can’t go wrong with the Primer.

There are some other parts of his site I really enjoy though. The interviews are top notch, and so are the seminars. A full membership gets you all that stuff…for the period of the membership. But I tend to binge stuff and feel like I get the best value by a membership that I keep semi active. So, I might let it lapse from time to time, then I’ll renew it when I find myself missing my interview access etc.

Another huge perk of the full membership is that there’s a new Technique Critique feature on the site that’s available to members. It’s a guaranteed critique from Troy or Tommo on your playing. That was always technically possible on the forum (and free) but it was never really “guaranteed” and you could easily just get someone like me who may or may not be correct about how to improve your playing. That said there are plenty of great players on the forum who do give good advice. Still, Troy and Tommo are world class players and technique critics so you’ll be certain to get proper feedback from them. There is even “visibility” settings in the event that you don’t want the general public to see your video and conversation with Troy/Tommo.

1 Like
#5

Ref:

#6

That thread is really old. Even how Troy refers to it as an “enabler of upward pickslanting” he never refers to picking motions like that anymore…I’m curious what he’d say about it now. IIRC this was around the time of a pretty big shift in the understanding of “pickslanting” in general. That’s when terms like “USX” and “DSX” emerged as they better capture the path the pick traces.

The only thing that makes me think we should back up and say “well, it’s more nuanced than that” is if someone unfamiliar with these concepts in general comes along and reads this, thinking “oh cool! I just bend my thumb a little and I get escapes in both directions”. Then they go barking up the wrong tree. When I didn’t know any better I mistakenly thought all I had to do was point my pick down and I’d be able to play all the phrases Eric Johnson does. There’s much more to it than that, but that was my newb takeaway from some of the videos I’d seen early on in my exposure to Troy’s material.

I guess stepping back from all the nomenclature, if you feel like making these moves is helping you play a phrase, that’s all that really matters.