Whose technique is your ideal and most want to copy?

Playing Technique
#21

So agree with this. I think it is fine to aim for a particular lick or phrase - to even play it as well as or sound like the player - but the way “you” will get there will likely be different from the way “they” do it.

There are SO many variables - not the least in my view are the physical difference between players. I look at Paul Gilbert’s hands, his height and size. Then you have differences in early learned techniques. Then there are preferences for what “feels” the most comfortable to the player. And on and on and on.

Still fun to discuss though! :slight_smile:

1 Like
#22

Sorry I want to be a little boring also today :rofl:

I think my advice above was a little misunderstood. I don’t think the advice “do what feels natural” is particularly good either, because we see a lot of people for whom inefficient technique (like string-hopping) has become “natural”.

No, what we try to do is explore the efficient motions that the player can do, but maybe they haven’t yet figured out how to apply them to guitar playing.

It is true that most of the time the result of this is a single escape picking motion, and more often than not it may be a DSX one. Once you have that, we believe it is extremely important to develop a varied vocabulary exploiting this primary motion.

This can just be the starting point of course, I’m not saying that players should give up on finding other motions that can increase their vocabulary.

But there are big risks in skipping that first important step, limiting as it may seem (spoiler: it’s not very limiting, especially if you learn to augment your primary motion with other “tricks” like hybrid, sweeping and legato). The desire to “play anything” can paradoxically hamper your progress much more than accepting the limitations of your immediately available technique.

EDIT: I forgot to say that I am a massive fan of Final Fantasy music too (and videogame music in general)!!

4 Likes
#23

I don’t know why, but I find that very interesting. I would have assumed USX.

You should go watch the 8-bit music theory channel on YouTube if you don’t already. He breaks down a lot of classic game scoring. It’s kind of fun to see how the composers did what they did with very little processing resources available for those old consoles.

2 Likes
#24

Great discussion that has evolved past the original question. (My short answer would be Paul Gilbert.)

Having just tinkered around a bit with both USX and DSX, it seems to me that, just from the standpoint of practical mechanics, playing with an upward pick slant makes it very difficult to palm-mute, which is a fairly important element of technique for players of metal/heavy rock. Upward slanting seems to lend itself really well to playing acoustic or clean electric, while downward slanting seems much more effective for metal players.

I like to play different styles, so I plan to learn both approaches and use them in different situations.

1 Like
#25

Tell that to Al Di Muteola! Also Paul Gilbert’s primary motion is DSX though a lot of his vocab is mixed escape :slight_smile:

It is definitely different though, feels a little alien to me but I’m slowly getting to grips with it. I’m using a flatter index finger for muting and experimenting with moving my picking hand more onto the strings then the bridge and using the bit between the thumb heel and pinky heel to mute. Using the pinky heel with USX felt a lot more natural to me but I have been doing that as long as I can remember so I might just need time to adjust!

1 Like
#26

I don’t think you see an upward pickslant in their technique though. Likely a zero degree pickslant as their pinky heel anchors are on the bridge.

3 Likes
#27

That’s a good point, I always think of an upward pickslant and DSX as the same thing but I guess they’re not! Upward pickslant is a very specific type of DSX I guess?

Is that strictly true? Maybe the very base of the pinky heel but I didn’t think it was the entire pinky heel like in USX? :slight_smile:

EDIT:

These look upward slanted to me but I may be wrong:

EDIT:

Just noticed a playback issue, if you click ‘Watch on YouTube’ it will take you to the video and the points I’m specifically referring to are 0:30 in the first video and 1:15 in the second video.

1 Like
#28

I can’t actually see those videos for some reason.
I wouldn’t be too sure exactly how much of the pinky heel would be down and it may depend on what is being played. I’m almost certain I’ve seen clips of Paul, when he is palm muting, and could see he was very supinated with the pinky heel down.
I think I’ve seen similar with Al, but maybe not as obviously supinated.

Andy Wood is a good example too. Close up clips when plan muting showed very little, if any pickslant.

All still DSX though. From my own experiments, trying to palm mute from a pronated postion, which gave an upward slant, felt impossible to palm mute the notes I was playing .

1 Like
#29

Mine was Eddie van Halen, then when I found out about Jason Becker he became my main guitar idol.

Though I can’t play like either so I’ve given up, or lets say, accepted life n reality. I can be myself.

2 Likes
#30

Sorry for the palm muting detour, but Andy Wood talks about it here at about the 1:01 mark

His palm muting in general is done with this area of his hand:

image
image417×537 43.4 KB

#31

In that clip of Andy Wood, it looks like his pick is pretty close to perpendicular to the guitar. I’m not seeing any noticeable slant in either direction.

#32

Indeed. I think his interview (and the understanding of “wrist” players in general) was what prompted Troy to step away from the whole “slant” analysis. The slant is definitely present in some players. Most USX players (EJ, Yngwie, the gypsy players etc) but it’s not what causes the pick to escape. That’s achieved by a joint/muscle motion. In some setups, we get that side effect of a slant, but the slant itself isn’t where the magic is. It’s a real shame because I love alliteration and “Pickslanting Primer” has such a nice ring to it.

But yes, in many wrist players, you’ll see almost no slant.

2 Likes
#33

I haven’t gotten all the way through the Primer yet, so there is content I haven’t yet seen, which may be very pertinent to this part of the discussion. I will say that, from my experience prior to getting into CtC, I think I have always been someone who plays with little to no slant, and have mostly utilized double-escape without realizing I was doing it. But I have often encountered limitations with that technique, and the way I have typically dealt with them has been to utilize legato and minimize the number of notes that I picked. The reason that I came to CtC was to see if I couldn’t find a way to pick all those notes that I was skipping past. Maybe, as I continue going through the material, I’ll find some goodies that help me to do just that without converting to a style that relies heavily on pick-slanting.

#34

All sounds good. Nothing wrong with no slant at all, provided the “mechanic” driving that motion is solid. There is a very famous double-escape motion that’s no good at all known as…string hopping lol! We’re never supposed to give advice without seeing someone’s playing. I’d take full advantage of that membership of yours and do a platform Technique Critique with Troy or Tommo and they’ll get you moving. Though, I do think in general they prefer people go all the way through the Primer just so they’ll be somewhat familiar with the feedback supplied.

One thing we can definitely say without seeing your playing is to check if you can do a fast tremolo with whatever your current picking motion is. It doesn’t necessarily have to be something you can do at 200bpm, but you’d definitely want to feel pretty comfortable with it in the 160 - 180 bpm range. That would rule out (or expose) string hopping and just how efficient the motion is at all. If the motion can’t do that, throw it out and onto the next one. They’d go over all this with you in the Technique Critique but that’s a little self test you can do on your own just to see if you’re heading in the right direction.

In theory though, if you can play fast with a neutral slant you’d most likely have a motion that has DSX capability and possibly double escape (cross picking) or mixed escape. Depends how “wristy” the motion is. Nothing wrong with an elbow motion but typically that gets you DSX only. Which is of course just fine :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#35

Yeah, I was going to wait until I got all the way through the Primer before submitting a technique critique. But I can easily do a reasonably fast tremolo on a single string. My troubles in the past have always come with switching strings (and not all the time, but in certain situations), which is where I think a lot of the stuff in the Primer will come in handy (no pun intended).

1 Like
#36

Now this is getting fun. I didn’t know we could mix and match :wink: I’ll take

Rusty Cooley’s fretting hand (but Paul Gilbert’s ring and pinky fingers)
Rusty Cooley’s right forearm/elbow
Andy Wood’s wrist, plus Marshall Harrison’s pick hand fingers
Marshall Harrison’s legato
Allan Holdsworth’s brain
Stevie Ray Vaughan’s heart/soul
Brad Paisley’s tone

I’d look weird but I’d be so good.

3 Likes
#37

Lol imagine you in the matrix. I know kung fu

1 Like
#38

I’d be happy to play like Troy, because he can play anything. That said, I haven’t seen him with multi-finger tapping, but he can probably do that too!

1 Like
#39

Just pictured myself as a Shawn Lane / Nile Rodgers hybrid bringing shred to the dance floor. :star_struck:

1 Like
#40

Troy can kill it on the piano so I’m sure multi finger tapping would not be a stretch :wink: