Mechanics don’t matter either, you won’t be able to play it all fast. The problem is some are much more advanced so this process of having to learn something completely new outside of the norm of their playing, yes it will happen much faster with a more higher skilled professional player. However the process works the same, they are just so fast at it that they blast through the baby steps phase super quickly with their hands already having the skill to do it. But the average person who doesn’t improvise as much it will take much longer.
Well…yeah. That’s not news. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I think riding a bike is a decent analogy. If you’ve never done it before and you want to learn, there’s a minimum speed you’ll need to go or it just won’t work. You don’t have to be able to go as fast an olympic athlete, but you do have to go fast enough so that the bike won’t topple over. There’s a point where things smooth out.
Similarly, you don’t have to pick as fast as Rusty Cooley to know you have an efficient motion. But if you’re going REALLY slowly and trying to make sure everything is perfect and you feel totally relaxed and hit no adjacent strings etc etc etc, you’ll have no idea if you’re on the right track or not.
I think a lot of people miss the point of why Troy and others say to start fast. Also, on the chapter in the Primer where Troy talks about this, he shows an excerpt of a Shawn Lane clinic where he’s saying the same thing. Maybe, those who don’t quite get it, think they need to go “Shawn Lane fast” to see if the motion is good. You only need to go fast enough to prove the motion works, then you back off slightly, still using the same motion, and clean it up. Then you go faster until it gets a little sloppy, then you back off slightly, still using the same motion, and clean it up. That last sentence gets repeated over and over until you’re as fast as you want to be, or you’ve reached your limit.
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Really slowly—50% speed for most faster phrasing is more than enough to support both playing and aural comprehension. This is also doable with the right technique and no tension. If you want to play it within a flurry of other licks in the long run, I would say that this is the best course of action because it will be built upon a strong foundation. Even riding a bike most start with flatter tires to assist, or training wheels.
Are we all just forgetting about dynamics? You shouldn’t expect to be able to alter dynamics if you don’t build up a proper foundation of understanding of the phrase you are trying to say at warp speed.
I think “start with speed” is a great approach. When I got started again I ran across MAB’s observation that “you can’t go faster than hammering one note,” and I resisted it; I didn’t want to be wrong, and trying tremolo picking might prove I’d been wrong for a long time. Tried it, turns out he had a point. I really think some people we label “extremely talented” just got lucky on the first try, that’s where Troy’s approach comes in handy; if it’s not working for you, try another time-tested method that does work.
I like the “start with speed” concept. That’s how I learned how to play the guitar, by playing along with records and faking it.
BUT: the important factor is to play short bursts at maximum speed, typically five or nine notes (starting and ending on a beat).
You have to cross the line between walking and running. You can’t do it gradually. Different muscles, different mind set.
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I could play most phrases this length with my old inefficient motion that I used for the last 10 years, the key for me learning my current efficient motion was trying to pick at maximum speed for 30-40 seconds at a time, not using the same motion but adjusting and trying to find something that worked. I actually have video of this sorta thing because I made a thread about it 
Old inefficient tense motion playing high speed bursts that breaks down after any extended period of time:
New current efficient motion that could pick at high speed with practically zero tension:
That being said, when you have a working motion playing shorter bursts can be useful, just to get used to the feel of playing a lick at a higher speed 
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I was thinking more about phrases that skip strings. I can loop stuff for a long time on one string without tensing up, but alternate picking lines over two strings or more is hard for your picking hand.
Not sure I agree, in theory you should just be applying the same motion you’d use on a single string?
If you’re talking about playing phrases that used mixed escapes or helper motions then definitely but any single escape lines are relatively the same difficulty regardless of how many strings are involved
Changing strings is the hard part imo. Ascending or descending fours (in one position) includes a lot of string switching and is hard to do neatly. “In theory you should just be applying the same motion you’d use on a single string?” I had the impression that the whole beginning of “Crack The Code” was the problem of switching strings efficiently, not playing fast tremolo on one string.
Depends how you pick it! Completely alternate picked it can be challenging but arranged for single escapes it becomes pretty easy, I can burn fours when played how Troy arranged the escapes in the original Volcano seminar
I guess that’s right but the two are intrinsically linked. Whenever someone needs advice on their technique the first thing everyone asks for is a video of them playing as fast as they can on one string. That way we can see if the motion works and how the pick escapes the strings, once you can recall that high speed motion on command you can apply it across all strings to phrases that fit within your natural USX or DSX motion 
I typically practice at half speed and full speed, back and forth. 8th-notes and 16th-notes at bpm 160 etc. I focus on tone a lot and play clean or with moderate gain. If I’m sloppy at the fast tempo, I try to relax until it’s OK, or break it down to smaller pieces. If I mess up a scale going from the 3rd to the 2nd string, I just practice that bit, not the whole scale.
How long is really required? In classical and flamenco tremolo, you cycle through a series of hand maneuvers and then repeat; with a plectrum pick, it’s simply down and up. 6 notes? Better make it 12 that is 6 cycles of down and up, better throw an extra 2 or 3 cycles in there cause you got to rev it up sometimes. 
18 notes?
If you track using the arm, either from the elbow or combination of elbow, upper arm, shoulder etc, it can add some difficulties, as that isn’t often part of the picking motion. Unless you use elbow, or some Zak Wylde all joints picking!
Classical/flamenco tremolo has its own problems to solve and is a much more compound activity than plectrum tremolo. I don’t think it has anything to do with this discussion. BUT soon I will make a thread about itvand I will probably link this thread as “start with speed” is involved 
I can comment on how long of a plectrum tremolo Troy is probably looking for though. He likes videos to be less than a minute, so that is a clue.
I think practically speaking you need one that you can sustain for the length of time as phrases you would like to play. So I would say if you can sustain it for about 4 measures, that is good. I would be suspicious of a tremolo that is fast but could ONLY be performed for a measure or less. Some degree of endurance of the speed is required to prove the motion is efficient and non-tiring. Remember though, that is just to prove the motion works. Flooring smaller chunks when you are already confident with it is a valid way to practice too (as long as it’s helping). Which leads me say…
It’s important to remember the broader concept here, which is to find what works so you can learn from it or even exploit it. If @Jacklr identified an issue with himself being able to sort of “cheat” with shorter segments and he needed longer durations to make sure his motion was legit, than that’s what he should do. His progress speaks for itself since he documented it. If @Staffan_William-Olss found success with shorter phrases and had good results, that’s also great. Same with OP that says starting fast is no good for him and he made progress other ways. It should all feel easy though. Troy often says “if it’s not easy, it’s wrong”
For doing a tremolo phrase sure.
I personally love this type of practice, great way to get used to the feel at different speeds! For me 160bpm 16th notes is more challenging with pentatonic scales because of the jumping back and forth but for 3NPS phrases I could happily play at that pace with my old inefficient motion
It’s hard to say 
Enough notes in a row so that you can’t fake it and have to force yourself to experiment with new motions caused by the randomness that happens when attempting to do something you can’t currently do
Definitely true as well, once you have a working motion this seems to be less of an issue and something that naturally happens over time but it does takes a little more work then a single string lick
Completely agree here, this is a great takeaway 
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That would be pretty quick actually, I would get quite annoyed by playing a super long tremolo phrase. Plus a single string line phrase/fragment doesn’t share the exact same picking traits that I do when I tremolo. Wouldn’t both be of importance, and not just one specifically?
I think it depends…
I would say the motion/picking traits when I play on a single string are one and the same, regardless of it’s a tremolo or a multiple note single string phrase
Nowadays, Yngwie uses what looks like a purely rotational forearm mechanic for tremolo playing and his standard wrist+forearm blend for multiple note single string phrases
He demonstrates it at the time-linked spot here:
I don’t recall ever seeing him use the pure forearm rotation back in the Steeler/Alcatrazz/Early Solo Stuff era, it seems to be something a bit more recent, though I might be wrong. I also feel I have seen him use pure rotation for multiple note single string phrases in recent clips but maybe that doesn’t feel as natural to him so he doesn’t use it all the time?
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I think it depends if you are flowing good with the tremolo motion, have good coordination in the moment, and can run with it for a single string phrase great. But this isn’t going to happen very often.
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