2wps theoretical question

lets take a typical 16th note 2way pattern: (starting on Downstroke)

E--------------------12–14–12-----------
B-----12–13–15-----------------15–13 repeat

lets say we are doing these at a decent intermediate speed. 16ths@168 (11.2 nps if my math is ok)

well if this is a “2way” lick, what is actually happening with the pick motion??

are we REALLY moving away from the guitar body as we downward escape going to the e string? and then are we REALLY moving away from the guitar body was we upward escape coming back down the the B string?

When I do this lick it feels like the pick and hand just stays more or less level. Is there even any time to change the whole motion from upwards to downwards escape in such a short lick?

For me, with a default escaped downstroke orientation and a fairly flat wrist position, it’s entirely a change in wrist angle. It’s subtle, but my wrist rotates from pretty flat to angled with the thumb and forefinger side pulling away a hair, sort of a rotational motion almost as if I’m turning a doorknob.

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Yes, the motion is real, but it doesn’t really need to be more than a few mm, so it is hard to see.

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Yeah, this.

To elaborate a little further - I pick mostly with a wrist deviation motion, and by default favor escaped downstrokes. To crosspick, near as I can tell and going off memory here (I don’t have a guitar with me) I think I just add a touch of wrist rotaton to my pickstroke. An interesting correlary of this is if I’m paying attention and doing this consciously, I can jump back and forth from escaped upstrokes to downstrokes simply by varying the orientation of my forearm and wrist angle.

I’m not sure how useful that is in practice, I feel like just locking into my comfortable orientation and going with it and using that rotational TWPS mechanic whenever I happen to need an escaped upstroke is probably the more repeatable way to go. But, as far as simply understanding what your hand is doing a little better, it’s kinda cool to see, and I guess if I knew I was gonna rip through a Yngwie 6s pattern or something similar with a consistent even number of notes per string then adding some forearm/wrist angle could be a viable option.

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Hey @JonJon,

check out this video from the Pickslanting Primer:

There is even a moment where the “is there enough time to change motions?” question is explicitely adressed. And as the others have already said, there is enough time. I know what you mean, though. I am amazed at what kinds of motions some guitar players can actually perform at high speeds.

As you noticed, the Lick you are talking about does need both kinds of escapes. If you can play it, chances are you are doing 2WPS without knowing it. But when you say it doesn’t feel like your changing anything, maybe you are swiping on one of the string changes? If you are, you don’t have to change the pick orientation.

yeah im deffo doing 2wps, thats not really the question. Im thinking more of the actual PATH, for instance if a one way dwps guys path goes in toward the body on the downstroke and a one way uwps path goes in toward the body on an upstroke…if we are doing a fast 2wps lick are we ACTUALLY going in and out towards and away from the body even on a short lick like this one?

or are we staying more level and doing more of a crosspick motion?

If I understand your question… Yes.

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