3nps seems faster than 2nps..is this normal or weird?

Playing Technique
#1

Maybe its normal lol.

In A minor starting on the 5th fret low E, using dwps:

I can pick this lick (7 notes) up the the G note with economy picking

D-----------------------------5
A------------------5–7--8—
E-------5–7--8---------------

faster and easier than I can pick these 5 notes:

D---------------------5
A--------------5–8—
E-------5–8----------

is that normal?? I guess it is in my situation due to the following:

  1. I havent worked ascending stuff as much as descending.
  2. I have worked 3nps stuff WAY more than 2nps

will the 2nps stuff eventually catch up to the 3ps? am I probably struggling mainly due to the fast left hand movements needed?

do people usually find descending pent stuff easier than ascending?

Thanks, JJ

#2

It’s normal. The easiest thing to pick is picking notes all on one string. So in general, the more notes per string, the easier a pattern is to pick.

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#3

yeah but 7 notes faster than 5? weird

I guess in a way its 5 pickstrokes either way though

#4

Oh, I thought you meant in terms of the tempo at which you’re playing the notes. Such as, playing 3nps patterns of 16ths at 200bpm compared to 2ps patterns at the same tempo. I misunderstood you. Sorry.

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#5

yeah the 2nps stuff just seems more “physical” to me. You cant even enjoy your stay on any particular string because by the time u realize you are on it, its time to go to the next

#6

I can play ascending 2nps quite fast by starting on an upstroke and using an “escaped downstroke” picking motion - in this way the momentum of the downstroke brings me automatically to the next string. Have you ever tried that?

#7

I am currently rechecking all my instructional vids and the Rick Graham stuff has some nice licks starting with an upstroke. I was already going to start working on some of that today

In my experimentation I have found I can do descending 2nps stuff pretty fast with UWPS. I have always done the classic blues lick where you bend the G or B and then hit the high note on the E and then descend etc. Well i have always hit that high e sring with a downstroke so naturally id then descend with uwps…whether or not I knew it at the time lol

This movement is really easy for me going D U with uwps:

e----5–
b--------8

its just harder for me doing that lick using dwps starting on an upstroke. Its not so much the weirdness of starting on the upstroke, its just that “outside” move coming down

CTC or not, i despise outside string changes lol

Its probably just due to not practicing the specific string changes much…because I have sort of made my peace with going to a higher string with outside motion but now I am sort of struggling with outside changes to lower strings

mainly just struggling with 2nps stuff

Another weird thing, Im sure some folks can relate. I can do certain awkward things okay as long as the lick doesnt START on those awkward things

for instance this is one of my fastest licks right now…and both of the string changes are the “awkward” ones (going to lower string with a downstroke using dwps)

e------12–14–15–14–12–10----------------------
b-------------------------------------12–11–10–8----
g---------------------------------------------------------7

I got that one going pretty fast. Yeah its a bunch of notes and only 2 string changes with plenty of time in between but then let me do a simple descending pent box and its WAY harder lol

#8

u mean with economy picking? or u just mean with uwps going u d u d etc?

#9

I mean UWPS, I ain’t no good at economy picking, can’t get the damn timing right :slight_smile:

#10

yeah its almost easier with eco to just wail out some fast stuff but its harder to do stuff metronomically on the beat etc etc

#11

As a really simple rule, the fewer picks per string… the easier it is to pick the phrase quickly. (assuming an even rhythm)

But I think it’s really important to try to get your 2NPS picking up to speed.

#12

How can 2NPS be picked using economy picking?

#13

well i was thinking of smaller patterns

g-----------5–7
d----5–7-------repeat

u d d u repeat

#14

oh, I see…

That particular pattern is part of my warm-up routine. :slight_smile: It’s really tough to alt-pick using pick-slanting though.

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#15

u r doing it u d d u?

im just starting it today, so freaking weird

its on Rick Grahams 2nd economy picking inst vid

obviously u can see the application, for instance nice smooth 2 string 7th arpeggios

#16

No, I do UDUD or DUDU. I kinda gave up on economy picking, because I was going down a rabbit hole, and not getting the sound, dynamics, timing that I wanted.

#17

yeah im just getting into it a bit. Hard to ignore it when u see all the great players using it. Sort of goes hand in hand with sweeping. If one is going to sweep or 5 strings, sweeping 2 is a good place to start

#18

When Rick does patterns that are tough to alt-pick, he usually introduces legato. And because he is so incredibly gifted with his legato, it sounds amazing. (30K hours of practicing will do that).

But for those of us who aren’t super-human, it’s really tough to get his sound.

#19

yeah but his picking is superhuman too. Dude can do it all

sadly ive played for 2 or 3 years LONGER than him lol

#20

His economy picking is 1000x better than mine ever was, that’s for sure. Do you have a recording of his 2 string economy picking? I’d like to see how he does this.