A big decision in technique

Technique Critique
#1

Hey guys, so I’ve got myself right down the Andy Wood rabbit hole and now I can’t decide whether I want to be an upward pickslanter or downward.
I want to be able to alternate pick anything so that i don’t ever have to think about slanting again, it takes me away from being musical too much and I end up just playing things that work mechanically rather than harmonically.
My theory is that it’d be much easier to have one favoured position and only deviate to the other slant when certain string changes call for it. (Just less thinking and changing really)
I think it’s more natural for my hand to be in a supinated downward slanting position, but whenever I try to play a fast line my body tries to upward slant and when I embrace that, it works,
It’s just less comfortable and I can’t mute strings as easy because of the angle of the hand.

Most of the phrases I hear in my head are uneven notes on strings, combine that with the fact that I find it awkward to start a run on a upstroke, and it’s a recipe for disaster when using the downward slant that I would rather have.
So I’ve come to a crossroads, do I just brute force myself to get comfortable with doing more 2WPS changes with downward slanting. Or do I force myself to get comfortable with upward slanting and somehow figure out how to mute whilst doing it.
I guess I don’t know what I’m asking for but if anyone has any pros or cons to choosing one, I’d love to know. Or if anyone has been through the same thing please share what you did.

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#2

I’m not sure this should be a conscious choice, especially if you don’t have a fast, working technique already.

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#3

I relate to this. It’s real tough to make these kinds of decisions…“what should I practice”…I’ve reworked things so many times, but honestly I think as we progress we hear things differently anyway, want different things out of our lines and whatever you wind up doing right now you’ll probably be exploring something different in two years.

All the variables that go into the ‘answer’ to the question have so much to do with current comfort level and tendencies, so it’s hard to say.

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#4

My opinion might not be what you’re after. But in my experience, thinking about how I’m picking and how it looks and if it’s what I want to do… Has only stumbled/slowed down my playing.

I am quite good at analyzing my and others playing, as it’s what I’ve been obsessed with for 5 solid years now. But I am extremely confident that this obsession has just created a road block in my musicality.
I know we are all here because of fascinations with how someone plays or looks when they play. My honest reply would be just let it go. Don’t think about it and just play the music you want. If you reach a point where something is seriously messing you up, Then spend a bit of focus on technique.

I’ll post a vid that really resonates with me. It’s Jason Becker telling a private student that he really has no control. He just let his body go. Now we are not all Jason Becker, certainly I’m not. But I really think there is a lesson to be respected and learned here. Just go off… have faith. And I apologize if it’s not in line with what you wanted, but I think it is.

No doubt thinking about what you’re doing is helpful, but too much will trip you up, I know this too well.

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#5

@gabrielthorn has it right. The first step we usually recommend around here is to film yourself playing a fast tremolo on one string, and then we work from there.

Attaching instructions should you wish to give it a go :slight_smile:

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#6

Seconding @tommo and @gabrielthorn. We haven’t seen good results with players trying to choose to be one type of technique or another. If you’ve been playing for any length of time, then you probably already have a technique. You just need to understand what it is so you can match it with the phrases that fit that motion.

Most elite players don’t have multiple picking motions they can do fast, they’re not choosing from some vast array of possibilities. Andy Wood and Al Di Meola have one motion I’ve ever seen them do continuously for very fast lines. That’s the “2:00” wrist motion we have talked about in recent features.

In short, there should be no “big decision”. Not if you want to start playing tomorrow. If you want to make figuring out how to do picking motions your main hobby, you are more than welcome to try and learn different techniques, of course. But make no mistake, that’s what it is — figuring them out, one by one, like a puzzle, and tricking yourself into to doing them even though you’ve never done them before and have little to no way of even knowing if you’re doing them right at first.

Our advice is always geared to getting you up and running asap, which is why we say, take what’s working now and build on it. All these motions work great as a starting point.

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#7

To add an extra thought.
In my speaking I’ve also stumbled across this very same issue. There are various words and slangs I am not comfortable in using (probably due to egotism) I have tried to alter the way I naturally talk, Naturally it’s very English slang, for example “mate” It’s automatic for me, but I don’t like it as it’s associated with chavs etc. And in my attempts to control my natural speech I just sound akward. It doesn’t flow.
I believe this is totally connected to what we do physically. If you try to alter your natural movements to much it will come across to outside observers as akward or fake.

I know I mght be in the minority on a technique enlightening forum. But I fully believe this. There is only so much you can change consciously. Tho I do think the posts above are alluding to that. Build on your nature.

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#8

I wish it was that easy haha, problem is I saw Troy’s vids a few years back and thought I had to do downward slanting so I’ve been building everything I know around that and now I don’t know what Is natural anymore. Nothing feels comfortable or fast, it all feels forced and I can’t detach from thinking consciously about it when trying to record.
I’m messed up hahaha.

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#10

I have a video but can’t upload MP4? How’s everyone doing videos?

#11

Nevermind I figured it out.
After messing around more, this feels the smoothest. Still a little tense in the elbow but I think that’s just mental tension as this feel more of a wrist motion. Looks like I’m a downer, moving this assembly seems to be the hard part though.
Eventually I want to be fluent in two way pick slanting though because I feel like that’s total freedom, (not having to make your licks fit your slant but being able to play whatever you felt sounded right)

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#12

I’ve experienced the same thing from practicing different picking styles. While I can do them, they feel unnatural.

I think @Troy has gone through this a lot with his work on all the different picking styles. He might be able to explain further.

I think the Idea of having one set picking style and just always using that is the way to go. It took me a couple years to get used to the evh type of picking. But it did reach a point where I was barely thinking about it any more and it was much more natural.
I think it takes quite a few years for it to become second nature. So perhaps you are at a good point now to choose one way.

I think an idea that we need to be able to do it all is a bad idea. And will keep you switching trying to conquer it all and have like the ultimate technique. I don’t think thats possible, and is best to give up that idea if you have it. I know I’ve had issues thinking I need to make it all work. We really don’t, it’s like what MAB says, musical people will find a way to make music.

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#13

Thanks for the video @Jacksonjamesallan! Not a bad starting point at all!

This is a fast motion, looks like a mix of wrist and elbow, but at first sight it appears fully trapped. Additionally, it looks like you have the wrong pickslant for the motion - do you feel like your upstrokes are getting a bit stuck on the string?

I think this is a classic case where one tries to do something very intentionally (“DWPS” using old terminology, or what we now call Upstroke Escape), consciously slanting the pick etc., but when you get going your movements do something else entirely!

If I had to make a guess - since your elbow is getting involved I’d say you have a great DSX (downstroke escape) motion just around the corner. So I’d intentionally practice phrases that only switch strings after downstrokes, and see how that goes!

Give it a shot and let us know!

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#16

As per the other thread, and as per @tommo’s comments, this looks like DSX motion. Why?

Very generally, without nerding out on this too much, when you see a player whose arm is mostly flat on the guitar, and the hand moves back and forth and also the elbow joint moves a little at the same time, that’s usually downstroke escape. Meaning, that’s a player where they will have success when the last pickstroke on the string is a downstroke. This is similar to Al Di Meola, Andy Wood, etc.

This is why the “pickslant” is probably going to confuse you. Your pickslant looks like DWPS. But your motion looks like downstroke escape, which is what we would have previously called “upward pickslanting” but obviously that’s not what you’re doing. This is a classic example of why we don’t use the term “pickslant” any longer to refer to motions. We talk about the motion itself, either the joint direction (which type of wrist motion, which type of forearm, etc.), or we try to determine which escape it’s doing.

The best way to know what kind of escape you are doing, and thus which type of multi-string phrases your motion is suitable for, is to test it by playing simple even-numbered patterns starting on either an upstroke or a downstroke, and seeing if they are smooth / clean. If you have Primer access, these are the instructions for doing that:

If you don’t, try fretting 1234 or 4321 on each string and doing that across several strings while picking every note. Some players find the descending version of this easier. Start the pattern on a downstroke. Then start the pattern on an upstroke. Film the results in both cases.

Does one feel smoother than the other?

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#17

Fully agree I’m not looking to conquer all hahaha, just enough to solve my problems and let me make the music I hear in my head.

#18

Duuuuudeeee that makes so much sense!
I applied for the scholarship a while back but couldn’t get one so I’ll try the chromatic thing.
Never thought I’d have the wrong slant for the motion, thanks guys :muscle:

#19

What do you mean you couldn’t get one? We’re pretty lenient. We’d like to see some kind of financial reason beyond someone simply saying they wouldn’t use the site that much and don’t want to pay full price. Did we respond to you?

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#20

In the mean time do the escape tests, 4nps starting on downstroke and upstroke, and film the results. That will be instructive and will tell you what your motion is doing. Your “down the strings” angle in the previous test is on target - good work on that.

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#21

Ah okay, I sent it in about 6 months ago or something but didn’t get a response. I’m on pretty low income with a new baby and in two bands so don’t have a lot of time to run myself through all this stuff and can’t afford to buy anything haha. Maybe that wasn’t enough? idk. But if not, just having you guys talk me through it is incredibly helpful anyway and I’m super appreciative. So thanks again :v:

#22

That is way more than enough, it probably slipped through the cracks. Either that, or we wrote back and it hit your spam folder, which does happen. Feel free to send it in again, we’ll keep an eye out.

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#23

Oh okay wicked, I’ll have a look but if not I’ll send it again, cheers!

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