A few self taught problems

Harmony & Theory
#1

Hi :slight_smile:

I am from Poland, I use google translator so I hope that what I want to say will be understood :smiley:

Here are some of my troubles.

Problem number 1

How can I create chord progression
which has to rely on emphasize character/mood of chosen scale?

How it looks chords progression (in the key of C major)
with ionian mood and how it looks chords progression with phrygian mood
(in the key of C major/e minor -efgabcd-)??

Each scale has its own characteristic chord progression?
There is such a thing as “phrygian progression” etc?

I dont understand how create ionian progression,dorian progression ,phrygian progression etc

Scale have own mood because of characteristic notes but how about progression.

Let’s take this progressions:

Cmaj7 | Fmaj7 | G7 | - what mood we have here?
This is ionian progression,lyidian or mixolydian?
Which mood(of which mode/scale) is emphasized in this progression?And why?

What if play like this Cmaj7 | Fmaj7 | C7 |
Now it is lydian progression?

C7 is dominant for Fmaj7 ,but chord C7 contains non-diatonic note a# (for key of C).

And final question:

  • how to keep character of chosen mode in progression, using modal interchange ?

Problem number 2

We have seven diatonic chords within one key.
Only one diatonic dominant V which determines tonal center I.

Other chords ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii - how to determine each of them as a tonal center
they have only non-diatonic dominants.

In the key of C we have:
G7|Cmaj -diatonic

A7|Dm
B7|Em
C7|Fmaj
D7|G
E7|Am - (also diatonic but in harmonic minor)
F#7| B dim.

What’s next?

A7 to Dm is dorian move,or C#7 to Dm is more “dorianish”…or *Eb7 to Dm?

  • triton substitution for non-diatonic A7 chord,in the key of C.

In reference to the problem 1

Someone told me that in natural scale cdefgab
we have two characteristic notes f & b for all modes
with exception of lydian (b & e) and locrian (c & f).

But

Problem number 3

how about harmonic: cdef g# ab
and melodic: cde f# g# ab?

Which notes are characteristic here?

In harmonic “ionian #4” scale (cdefg#ab)
we have three characteristic notes f,b and g#?

These three notes (f,b,g#) are characteristic for other inversions
(defg#abc/efg#abcd/fg#abcde etc)?

And on the same principle in melodic (cde f# g# ab )
we have three characteristic notes f#,b and g# for all seven modes?
Nothing changes?

What we can do with scales (f# g# abcde) and (g# abcde f#)?

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#2

Modal chord progressions tend to feel very static. They do not have the feeling of forward of progression that tonal progressions do.

Here’s a very simple C ionian progression:

Cmaj7 | F/G | Cmaj7 | F/G

or…

Cmaj7 | Gsus7 | Cmaj7 | Gsus7

Here’s a very simple E phrygian progression:

Emin7 | Fmaj7#11 | Emin7 | Fmaj7#11 |

The way I think of it:

  • Figure out the home chord (Cmaj7 for Cionian, Emin7 for E phrygian), and emphasize it in the form (start and end the song with it, put it on rhythmically strong places, etc).
  • For chords other than the home chord, try to choose chords that would be very different than diatonic major/minor chords. In the E phrygian example, I used a bIImaj7 chord – definitely not a typical diatonic chord.
  • I try to avoid dom7 chords, because they tend to imply tonality. In the C ionian example, I use either a Gsus chord or F/G so it doesn’t feel like a dom7 chord.

Looks like a very typical diatonic progression. I would not really think of it as modal at all.

I also would not think of this as a modal progression. To my ears, it sounds like it starts in Cmajor, with the C7 either acting as a secondary dominant or a V7 modulating to F, depending on what comes after it.

Why would C#7 to Dm be more “dorianish”?

A7 or Eb7 to Dm is perfectly fine, but I think of them as a secondary dominant and its tritone substitute, there’s nothing really dorian about them.

For A harmonic minor, I’d say C, F, and G#
For A melodic minor, I’d say C, F#, G#

Sure, that’s what I would say. But keep in mind that this is mostly subjective, it’s not a science.

A lot.

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#3

Why would C#7 to Dm be more “dorianish”?>

I don’t know,I’m just wondering it is or not.

bIImaj7 chord …b is flat or note?
Chord II maj7 in the key of E phrygian is …F?
But flat F = E …wait,it is about Emaj7 | Emin7 ?

#4

What you need to know is what makes each mode unique. If you look at the major scale then look at the modes in parallel meaning having the same tonic or root note.
Say like G Major then G mixolydian then G Lydian. Then look at the chord structures for each mode you will see similarities and differences and it is the differences that you want to emphasize in order to bring out the color of the mode.
The same works for the minor counterparts.
Like Start with G Aeolian as home base then look at G Dorian and Then G Phrygian and make note of the similarities and differences. Not just the notes but the chord scales as well cause they are harmonically different.
If you are having trouble then work on your chord scales in G Major then transpose them to the other modes So that they are now the one chord. I apologize if I made you more confused.

here is an excerpt I did at another site a few years back.

Chord scales are nothing more than playing up the scale via the diatonic chords starting from the root of the mode and moving up the mode playing the chords shown. I am also stating these as numbers rather than notes first to get you to understand that knowing the numbers will make it easier for you to transpose these to other keys. These are usually stated as roman numerals, Upper Case for Major Lower case for minor.

The G Major (Ionian mode) triad chord scale has the following chord formula

I Maj, ii min, iii min, IV Maj, V Maj, vi min, and vii dim
for those who don’t know what a triad is it is a chord based on the root 3rd and 5th only.

So the triads in G Maj are
G Maj, A min, B min, C Maj, D Maj, E min and F# dim

The 7th chord scale for G major is
I maj 7, ii min 7,iii min 7, IV maj 7, V dom 7, vi min 7, and vii min 7b5

So the 7th chords in G maj are
G Major7, A minor7, B minor7, C Major7, D Dom7, E minor 7, and F# -7b5

the 7th chord forms are based on the root, 3, 5, and 7

G Lydian triad chord scale is as follows

I Maj,II Maj, iii min, #iv dim, V Maj, vi min, and vii min

So in G Lydian the triads are
G Maj, A Maj, B min, C#dim, D Maj, E min, and F# min

and the 7th chord scale is as follows
I Maj 7, II dom 7, iii min 7, #iv min 7b5, V Maj 7, vi min 7, and vii min

So in G Lydian the 7th chords are
G Maj7, A Dom7, B min7, C#-7b5, D Maj7, E min7, and F# min7

G mixolydian triad chord scale is as follows

I Maj, ii min, iii dim, IV Maj, V min, vi min, and bVII Maj

So the G mixolydian traids are
G Maj, A min, B dim, C Maj, D min, E min, F Maj

and the 7th chord scale is as follows
I dom 7, ii min 7, iii min 7b5, IV Maj 7, v min 7, vii min 7, and bVII Maj
So for G mixolydian the chords are as follows
G dom7, A minor7, B-7b5, C major7, D min7, E min7, F Maj7

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#5

and here is the minor counterpart I wrote to go with it

Today I am going to talk about the minor mode chord scales. Chord scales are nothing more than playing up the scale via the diatonic chords starting from the root of the mode and moving up the mode playing the chords shown.

The G Minor (Aeolian mode) triad chord scale has the following chord formula
i min, ii dim, bIII maj, iv min, v min, bVI maj, and bVII maj for G Minor the triads are lined up under the roman numeral counterparts
G- , Adim , Bb Maj , C-7 , D-7 , Eb maj, Fmaj

for those who don’t know what a triad is it is a chord based on the root 3rd and 5th only.

The 7th chord scale for minor (aeolian) is as follows

i min7, ii min7b5, bIII maj7, iv min7, v min7, bVI maj7, and bVII dom7 for g Minor the 7th chords are lined up under the roman numeral counterparts
G-7 , A-7b5 , Bb Maj7 , C-7 , D-7 , Eb Maj7, F7

the 7th chord forms are based on the root, 3, 5, and 7

The Dorian triad chord scale is as follows
i min, ii min, bIII maj, IV maj, v min, vi dim, and bVII maj for G Dorian the triads are lined up under the roman numeral counterparts
G- , A- , Bb Maj , Cmaj , D-, E dim, Fmaj

and the 7th chord scale is as follows
i min7, ii min7, bIII maj7, IV dom7, v min7, vi min7b5, and bVII maj7 for G Dorian the 7th chords lined up under the roman numeral counterparts
G-7 , A- 7 , Bb Maj7 , C7 , D-7, E -7b5, Fmaj7

The Phrygian triad chord scale is as follows
i min, bII maj, bIII maj, iv minor, v dim, bVI maj, and bvii min for G phrygian the triads are lined up under the roman numeral counterparts
G- , Ab maj , Bb Maj , C- , Ddim, Eb maj, F-

and the 7th chord scale is as follows
i min 7, bII maj 7, bIII dom 7, iv minor 7, v minor 7b5, bVI maj 7, and bvii min 7 for G phrygian the 7th chordsare lined up under the roman numeral
G-7 , Ab maj7 , Bb Maj7 , C-7 , D-7b5, Eb maj7, F-7

Play these a few times to get each chord scale in your head.

If you look at the relationship between each mode you will see a difference in the chord qualities between each mode. These differences are caused from the change of the one note that we discussed earlier in the modes like the raised 6th for Dorian and the b2 for Phrygian. So to make the mode stand out you should play a chord progression that emphasizes these little changes

come up with some chord progressions that emphasize the differences between these minor sounding modes

Like say a good minor one thats classic is
i- to bvii maj to bvi maj

one for dorian is the staple
i-7 or i- to IVmaj or IVdom7
and repeat

for phrygian probably
i- to bII maj to bIII maj to i-

see what you guys can come up with

also you can play chord progressions that are not unique(meaning that all modes will work) and try to play these modes over the progression back to back to see how it affects the overall progression

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