Am I using two different motions?

Technique Critique
#1

Hey guys, I could use some feedback. I’ve been attempting to work on my picking this month (which seems like it’s reverse dart thrower dsx) and I’ve noticed some sort of discrepancy between playing on the sixth string and the fifth string and by extension, the rest of the strings. In the video examples I’ve provided I had already been trying to analyze what was going on for at least an hour and a half. So the attempts I did for the video might be a little sloppier than I would like just due to being tired (it’s 2 AM as I’m writing this). Trying to hold my phone still while playing may not have helped either. But when I play on the sixth string, I end up with a motion that feels fairly natural and fluid to use. I can usually hit a few bars at around 190 bpm without too much of an issue though I am still trying to eliminate the random motion that sometimes happens. But if I attempt the same thing on the fifth string, the motion doesn’t feel as natural. It feels like somethings changed but I can’t really put my finger on it. Things feel slightly sluggish and hitting something like 170 bpm feels more difficult. I also end up with some tension in the upper portion of my forearm. I don’t know if it’s a difference in hand placement, unintentionally switching to a similar but different motion, or some mysterious third option. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Edit: I’m not sure why the audio and video don’t seem to be synced. I apologize for that

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E6Q0TcM-hWw

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uiwe7THGsJg

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mOaO1tYD_Sk

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l_7mDccYq3A

#2

I think the first is reverse dart thrower wrist and the second is dart thrower wrist. In the first example you’re playing on the left side of the string as you look at it from the bridge and on the second example you’re playing on the right side on the string. I’d try to find the two motions on both strings and see if you can feel the difference as you move between the two. Keep the tremolo going and see if you can feel the change as you go into the other motion.

#3

It looks like I see more wrist extension happening on the low E string and more deviation on the A, and your forearm becomes slightly more supinated on the A string than the low E as well. I think the change in forearm orientation might be causing what you’re describing. Try to maintain the same type of pronation you’re doing on the low E when you move over to the other strings.

#4

I’m not sure I’m quite understanding when you say I’m playing on the right and left side of the strings. I know the angle that the pick is hitting the strings is different when I’m playing on the low E and A but I’m not sure where left and right come in.

#5

This makes sense unfortunately. The motion I use when playing on the low E feels more “vertical” than the motion I use for the A string. When I was trying to figure things out last night, I tried to use the same motion on both strings. But whenever I played on the A string I couldn’t seem to replicate the motion I use on the E string. This all feels very “one step forward, two steps back” haha.

#6

Personally I’m not seeing that, they both looks like they are on more of the RDT axis, the motion on the 5th string just looks more trapped. :slight_smile:

Yeah I think this might be right.

Both of the examples seem around 160bpm 16th notes to me, I don’t think either of them are efficient. You seem to be experiencing the type of randomness you get when you don’t have an efficient motion programmed into your motor learning yet. I remember going through this sort of thing - you are pushing to achieve a high speed but your hands don’t have an efficient motion locked in yet so you get these weird variations in your pickstroke that fight the string and throw you off.

That being said your motion on the 6th string looks closer to being efficient. To me it looks like you switch back and forth between these two picking paths:

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I’ve found, when you really lock in with DSX it feels more like it follows this pick path (does anyone else agree?):

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Might be something to consider when experimenting! :slight_smile:

#7

I’m not surprised that I topped out at around 160. I was pretty tired by the time I got around to recording these examples and really hadn’t been hitting anything close to my top speeds for a bit. I definitely agree that I don’t have a completely efficient motion yet. I also agree that my motion on the 6th string feels closer to being efficient. What I find interesting is that you’ve noticed that my more efficient motion ends up having a slight arc to it rather than just being a straight line. Makes me wonder how big of a role that arc is playing when things feel easy.

Still, I’m wondering how I can achieve my “closer to efficient” motion on other strings. It’s almost like as soon as I switch strings my hand “forgets” how to do that other motion. I think BlackInMind might be on to something when they said that my 6th string motion seems more like extension and my 5th string motion seems more like deviation. My 6th string motion feels more vertical (if that makes any sense) than my 5th string motion. I’m not sure yet how to replicate it on other strings in a way that feels just as easy. It certainly doesn’t help that I can’t practice for long due to developing back pain between my shoulder blade and spine sometime around January after a short attempt at switching to a usx motion.

#8

On second look this does like rdt motion only. This means arm poition or grip position changes to see if anything works. I can see what I was seeing, on the fifth string you are on both sides of the string not going through a diagonal path.

#9

The 6th string motion is extreme flexion/extension, almost like you’re dribbling a basketball. I don’t really know how useful it could be as a general mechanic, so I might ditch it and start from scratch. Try using a pisiform anchor on the bridge, as I notice you have no support there currently and don’t seem very stable, and perhaps experiment with a little less supination.

Also, you have very little pick exposure, and some “positive pick point” going on (pick tip is pointing in the direction of your thumbnail). Let a little more stick out and try having the pick point neutral - if you’re staring at your thumb, tip goes directly out to the left. If it shifts a little positive, no big deal, but if it shifts a lot, something about the grip and motion aren’t working together smoothly (the positive pick point is compensating for garage spikes).

EDIT: I should have mentioned - try to develop a motion on some other string first, as well, like the third.

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#10

I experience sort of the same thing at times, and I think it has to do with how the base of your palm sits on the guitar.

When playing on the 6th string, more of your palm is resting directly on the body, not the bridge/strings, so you are adding more extension to the wrist to compensate for the lower hand position.

I think the high and low E strings are always a little tricky compared to the other 4.

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