Amp choices for modern metal bass response

Gear
#1

We don’t have a really modern amp in the studio for metal players that come in. Surprisingly, they’ve all been pretty flexible about this and were happy to play through the Cornford.

But I’ll be the first to admit that the low end on that is not the same. It doesn’t do that super dry high-passed sounding djenty thing. And some of these modern riffs just don’t sound right without that.

So I’m looking at lunchbox type metal amps that we can have on hand. I watched a video demo of the EVH 5150III LBX-S. The red channel on that sounds crazy tight, almost unpleasantly so – like a square wave. My Atari 2600 has more sag than this. It’s hard to believe this amp has anything to do with EVH since it’s pretty much the opposite of the sound he’s famous for.

I also took a look at the Peavey Invective MH. Lots of features in such a small box, including a built-in boost pedal. Also incredibly tight and dry sounding.

If we pick up one of these, is there such a thing as “too tight” for modern metal? Will a player come in and be like, that’s too modern? Because I don’t want to buy something nobody wants to use. Or are either of these good enough as all-rounders for extreme metal players and others who need that modern chuggy sound?

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#2

I have no idea but if I was Kemper, Fractal, or one of those people, I would be really excited to get one of my units hooked up to your guest artists. :wink:

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#3

Any chance you’d try plugins and run audio to a PA speaker? This would also streamline recording greatly, and give you insight to things like attack / dynamics by having the DI available.

#4

They sometimes bring their own! In which case, done and done.

But for my purposes I like a real amp with minimal controls and an actual power amp. I want to be able to turn it on, spin a knob and play.

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#5

Honestly it’s a hassle. First, you need the whole computer rig fired up, with the DAW running and a project loaded, just to play anything.

I did do that with Cory Wong because he has a signature plugin which he knows. So of course I do what the artist needs. Then when the DAW is loaded, at least the way his plugin worked, you needed to install it on one track then record on another, but keep the plugin track selected / highlighted while filming. If you accidentally click away from it, it won’t record program changes. I think that was the limitation, but I may be misremembering. Either way, very brittle - it’s very easy to hit a key and change tracks by accident.

These are probably limitations of running in a DAW environment so it’s not the fault of the plugin maker. But it just made me super on edge that I kept turning around while filming to make sure it was still going.

In general, if I can run outside a computer I’m happier.

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#6

Real amplifiers for the win! lol crazy Idea number 1

How about a Fender Bassman Where you run a line switcher to emulate an effects loop (Boss stomp) and then a Boss Metal Zone through the loop? And then assemble a small pedal board with a boss OD1 and CRANK that sucker up… lol True metal tone? I don’t know but I did it and I had a lot of fun with it hahaha

Good luck, Troy.

#7

Actually I had Neural in mind! All their models have stand alone apps available, so you don’t have to involve a DAW at all.

What about preamp pedals into power amp + “real” cab, or PA speaker and IR loader? There have been a good amount of preamp pedals that have hit the market that sound really good without having to have a “real” amp.

#8

You mean like a Tonex or something? If you’re going to go to all that trouble just to make it work like an amp by needing addtional pieces of gear or full range speakers, why not just get an amp?

My question isn’t really about the tech – I definitely prefer an amp. It’s more about the sound and whether a modern metal player is going to be put off by the super high-pass sound of something like the EVH amps or other ultra modern amps. I suspect this is what these things sound like, and what modern players expect, but I’m just making sure before we buy one.

#9

Metal Zone! I’m more of an HM2 guy, but same idea. It’s all I had!

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#10

Nothing complicated; one example is the Fortin Meshuggah pedal that was just released, which is basically a preamp emulation of their Meshuggah amp.

Assuming you already have a cab, the only additional piece of gear would be a power amp. You could even use your existing amp as a power amp if you wanted to, just run the pedal into the fx loop.

You would only be out the cost of the pedal and not another amp. If you like the approach, there are more preamp pedals for different sounds, and you could have a handful for the cost of a lunchbox amp.

If you get a “modern metal” amp like the Invective, why would a “modern metal player” be put off? If they’re gonna have specific sound requirements, then it seems like a hard situation to prepare for, unless you have a few different amps + pedals + cabs on standby.

#11

You could get a Preamp pedal/unit which does the modern high gain thing, and use the Cornford poweramp and speaker maybe? I know victory makes preamp pedals like this. They have a preamp pedal version of their ‘Kraken’ amp, which from what i’ve heard is supposed to give a modern high gain sound.

Alternatively, i’m sure you could get a killer modern sound using the corford and some suitable pedals (maybe something like the Horizon devices Precision drive)

#12

Oh ok I see what you mean, i.e. if we don’t know preferences ahead of time then pedals are cheaper and I can have more of them in case one is no good.

So that just leads back to the original question, which is, does it matter? I only ask out unfamiliarity, not because I necessarily think players will be that picky. They haven’t been so far! I suspect that any one of the popular choices would be enough of an “all rounder” to satisfy.

I’ve heard their preamp pedal is the least good of the Krakens compared to the amp v1 and the newer Kraken lunchbox which came out last year. I don’t know how much that matters.

I have their amp-in-a-box “The Jack”, which looks like a large pedal but is actually just an amp with a power amp. Tons of features – footswitchable reverb, DI with IR, weighs nothing. I used it for the Dweezil thing. They do have a Kraken of this but it’s a little older and doesn’t have a clean channel. If it did, I would probably have bought it already. If only because of the pile of features, inclusion of power amp, of zero weight.

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#13

@Troy I’d say you’re good with a Peavey or EVH head. I think I see those more than any other head at death metal shows. I personally use the 6505+, but that isn’t a small lunchbox head. I’m not familiar enough with those smaller heads to comment, except that they are surprisingly good from everything I’ve heard. A lot of the overly tight-tightness that might put off a more underground or oldschool metal dude comes from the pickups and stuff like really tight gating anyway, IMO.

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#14

There is a Peavey 6505 mini head, which is made by peavey and looks more like the original peavey 5150 amps. Not sure how it compares to the 6505+ though :slight_smile:

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#15

I haven’t played them myself but I’m quite sure there’s a 6505 lunchbox head. The 5150/6505 are such a classic model I could see it being a good choice for ‘here, you do metal, plug into this.’

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#16

Nothing of actual use to add, but your Cornford has always sounded amazing to me. Dang kids and their djenty things!

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#17

Does it need to have a clean channel? I know the PRS MT15 is a lunchbox amp, has a modern gain channel and also a clean channel. PRS also just released a new revision of this amp, so you might be able to find a used mk1 pretty cheap!

#18

I highly recommend looking into the ENGL Ironball SE and Fireball 25.

The Fireball is one of the few lunchbox style amps with actual big tube 6L6s and this made a difference in louder band sessions.

The Ironball SE also managed to sound huge even with the smaller EL84 power tubes. But the Fireball 25 sounded girthier but a bit less “tight” which can be easily remedied with an OD pedal in front.

The only other lunchbox amp I know of with large 6L6 powers tubes is the PRS MT-15 (the mark tremonti one).

#19

For high-gain rock stuff it’s great. Its weakness has really become apparent in doing things like John’s Obsidian seminar. The low end is really not right it’s all raggedy and strange-sounding. We disguised it in the songs with his rhythm tracks, which sound great and used his plugins for added width. But for solo’d guitar, and low-string stuff, the Conford is just not right for extreme metal.

The fact that the artists themselves have been almost universally not picky about this is a surprise to me, personally. Especially given that every commenter on the internet on every amp review ever made is like the world’s most discerning critic. It’s kind of hilarious.

But all kidding aside the difference is real and we need to have the right tools on hand.

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#20

I’ve seen the V2 of that amp, it looks great. My impression is that this is not quite as super tight as the modern metal amps like the Kraken, but probably more suitable than what we have for doing modern music.

That amp also does have a nice clean channel as you would imagine since Tremonti songs have plenty of that. It also has independent eq per channel, which is great and quite rare on any amp. Without this, you are at the mercy of the amp designer and what they think the right amount of brightness is for your clean tone and dirty tone. As I’ve discovered, this is all over the map. Sometimes your clean is nice and your gain is ice picky. And then you darken your gain and now your clean is like jazz-level dark. Separate eq fixes this.

Also, if I have to have an amp in the studio, it would be nice if it were something I personally wouldn’t mind using. And if I’m sitting here recording, I like a footswitch to go from dirty to clean, and to turn on and off built-in reverb. The Cornford has a really nice spring reverb. I don’t usually record it but it’s great for just playing stuff in the room. The Jack has that too in digital form, which I’m fine with. Plugging in a reverb pedal into a effects loop just adds three or more wires and mess.

Man I’m getting old! I have preferences now.

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