Anyone else only able to DSX with your thumb resting on the strings?

Since buying the pickslanting primer, I’ve always found it amazing that Troy can get such a clean downstroke escape with minimal pronation and without the side of his thumb resting on the strings. I’ve also noticed that a lot of the players he films doing DSX (such as Andy Wood) never seem to have the side of their thumb rest against the strings.

Maybe it’s just the way my wrist works, or the fact I use the small Jazz III picks, I’m not sure. The only way I’ve ever been able to get DSX feeling natural is with the side of my thumb resting on the strings. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, it’s just an observation, and was wondering if anyone else has had this.

Probably not a bad thing… if the results are good and easy acheived. Maybe you are playing at a steeper angle than Troy shows (around 10 degrees if I remember correctly). You could post a video showing your progress- I’d be interested to see it.

I did this when I started experimenting with DSX, but found that if I spent much time playing this way at high speed, the side of my thumb would get sore, and I was worried about causing blisters. I still think some experiments with it may have helped me develop a feel for DSX and help train the movement I wanted, but I knew that I didn’t want that thumb contact long-term. As I got a feel for the movement, I found that switching to an approach with a little more of a wrist anchor on the bridge made me feel more confident without resting the thumb. I used Andy Wood as a guide. I’ve also experimented with a DSX approach more like what Ardeshir Farah does, using a tall ring finger against the guitar body to help guide the motion and support a more pronated and wrist extension-y arm position. Mainly I suggest experimenting with different combinations of where on the bridge to anchor the wrist or palm heel, and what part of the palm heel to use. I think there’s a video somewhere on here comparing Andy, Molly Tuttle, and David Grier. While I think that video is geared more to double-escape picking, the stuff about wrist position would apply equally well to finding a good posture for wrist-based DSX. The Ardeshir Farah approach, at least in my attempts to mimic it, seems to feel like it has a bit more of a forearm rotation component to it, and definitely feels like it uses wrist flexion/extension to a greater degree than wrist deviation.

So I should probably say that this isn’t my first time experimenting with DSX. I used to do it a lot before ever seeing these videos and just not know what it was called - I used to be a primary UWPS player as that’s what I’d picked up from hanging around the UG forums. Resting the side of your thumb on the strings had a fringe benefit of being a fairly good muting technique and I got so used to it that it’s quite easy for me to switch to a USX for one stroke then back.

However when I first found the pickslanting stuff I tried to go more supinated in order to get more consistent USX. While in a primary DWPS position I can actually do DSX by, as you say, using more flexion/extension rather than pure deviation. I can do it but it feels really unstable. Troy’s latest videos address this in the section about making the US and DS feel like they have an equivalent amount of resistance, but I can’t comfortably apply enough edge picking to do that with a DSX. Trust me, I’ve done a lot of experimentation with this and the only way that feels smooth and natural to me is with my thumb resting on the string. The wierd thing is to me it doesn’t feel like it’s at a particularly extreme angle so I do wonder if it’s just that I have a weird wrist, or that the shape of my very bony fingers means that I can’t get the pick angle the normal way.

As you alluded to in your first post, if you’re choking up on the pick a lot (pretty common among Jazz II enthusiasts), that could be a factor. Maybe try Jazz III XL and let more of the pick stick out? Though maybe the question is just academic for you. If what you’re doing works, there’s no need to change anything.

I think this is probably unlikely. Mainly because we don’t have any evidence yet there there are some wrists that can’t make certain motions. If that were the case it would probably impact everyday activities. Basically if you have a normal range of deviation motion, and a normal range of flexion-extension, the picking motions we look at in the new chapters all use such a small amount of that range of motion that if you couldn’t do it, it would cause problems beyond guitar playing.

Also keep in mind, the exact wrist motion you use is dependent on grip and arm position. If you play with an extended index finger, your DSX motion is actually using a slighly different blend of muscles than someone who plays with a more compact trigger grip. And of course a player with a three-finger grip and a more supinated position is using a different blend still. Have you tried all three of these and can you do them? Again, just a fun test. And I think it also helps drive home what “correct” really feels like in any of these orientations.

The David Grier-style approch is the pronated arm and does have some mild thumb contact. Again, only at the very apex of the upstroke. Most of the time, David is in the air and not touching anything.

1 Like

So I managed to record a video of my DSX playing. Unfortunately I couldn’t do anything too fancy as I was holding the camera with my left hand so decided to just do some fast(ish) picking on an open string. Anyway, this is what it looks like (I started with a slow exaggerated version of what it feels to me like I’m doing at a faster speed).

Anyway, any input on it would be great!

That’s the way I played for a very long time. I had apronated setup, did predominantly DSX-Motions and had very little Pick showing, so my thumb also touched the strings. I got used to it and thus relied on it for position feedback. When I tried to play USX with supinated setup, I first couldn’t do it at all, because I felt totally lost, so you might also need it.

So there are some suggestions if you want to change it, although it shouldn’t be necessary, as it’s the way Tom Hess recommends to pick. Not saying that his suggestions are all good, but picking this way definitely works.

  1. Change your setup to more supination
  2. use more pick, although this might be difficult with your Jazz III picks.

If I’m right about the guidance-aspect of thumb-touch then it might feel awkward in the beginning.

Thomas

2 Likes

Thanks - yeah it’s definitely a guidance thing. My brain doesn’t like not having that physical feedback there on DSX, and I think it’s just a crutch that’s hard to break past. I can play without the thumb rest but it feels like I’m getting more resistance from the string and I don’t seem to be able to wrap enough to reduce that. One thing that’s a little odd is that playing DSX with a more supinated arm primarily causes me problems at moderate speeds. If I try to absolutely blast it it doesn’t cause me as many problems.

I’ll try to fix this and get DSX working with more supination but it really does just feel seriously awkward - at least if I’m descending.

My recommendation for this new picking motion would be to really tackle single-string stuff first. make sure to try every string, the e-string has always been kind different for me, probably also a guidance issue as there is no “target string”. But I’m getting better.

thomas

1 Like