Are the new guitarists better than 80s guitarists?

General Music Discussion
#192

Or change the rules a little. I never went all in with this but I wrote a track once that had some dissonant Holdsworthian chords in it. I intentionally split the part between 2 guitars. It wasn’t a matter of comfort but orchestration. Not even Allan could have played these chords because each track had 3 notes on the E B and G strings forming some 6 note clusters. Just not humanly possible on one guitar (unless it was tuned way different or maybe Nashville strung).

Most of the sounds I find most beautiful are either choirs or orchestras. Sometimes it takes more than one person, working together, to get the best results.

All that said, Holdsworth"s stretches were insane. When I am near a guitar I’ll have to give the chords in that video a go and see how bad it hurts (or if I can even do them…). I had to do some crazy stretches in a few of the Barrios pieces I played long ago. Curious how they stack up to the man himself.

2 Likes
#193

Depends on what you mean by “better.” To put things into perspective, contemporary guitar is still a relatively new instrument. There are people alive today who were alive before the electric guitar was invented, let alone stuff like super strats and floyds. There is also thousands of times more resources of much higher quality today, such as cracking the code, for people to access now. So yes, as a general rule, modern players are more technically proficient. I also think we tend to idolise a lot of older artists a little too much. I like any x player as much as the next guy, but I still hear people from older generations speak as if guitar was “finished” after their favourite player came out.

On the other hand, the fact that we had the 80’s wave of virtuoso players given that they basically had to invent shredding is more historically significant to me than the fact that the overall average is better today. I am also not a fan of the instagram/tiktok wave of players who put out a flashy 45 second clip and call it a song. Nor do I particularly like some of the songwriting or mixing these days. If I had to describe it, it feels like a lot of what’s coming out today is made for social media more so than an album.

2 Likes
#194

I went through the whole thing. They all were very uncomfortable lol! There were 1 or 2 I simply couldn’t play, at least at the exact location specified. I can’t imagine switching to these chords at the drop of a hat like he did.

I remember when I was studying classical guitar, the chord I could not physically do (at first, it isn’t difficult for me at all now) was this one:

The big stretch right at 1:02

When my instructor presented me with this piece, my hands would not physically reach no matter what twists and turns I made with my hand, wrist, elbow or shoulder. But, I got it. So that makes me think with some work I could get a little better with the Holdsworth chords. After all, I’ve been not playing classical for the past 2 or 3 years so my left hand finger independence (and flexibility) is a little rusty (i.e. out of practice, that is not a reference to Mr. Cooley). But these Holdsworth chords are absolutely more challenging than the chords featured in most of the hardest classical pieces I’ve played. One sneaky challenge in the classical pieces, that I don’t know if an equivalent exists or not in Holdsworth’s world, is that we typically would hold chords like this while removing/changing fingers that followed a melody or harmony change. Sometimes those changes were harder than landing the chord to begin with.

But back on topic, I can’t think of another player with this level of innovation. Who did he have to look up to so that he could form this vocabulary? I know for decades prior to him there were ‘challenging’ chord melody arrangements in the jazz guitar world, but Holdsworth dials that up to 11. Is it possible for anyone to go beyond this? We are up against some very real physical limitations. And I think this stuff is off the table for individuals with smaller hands.

3 Likes
#195

gambale tuning or two handed tapping to the rescue

1 Like
#196

Sometimes you see a lick or an exercise or whatever and think “even if I get that to 90% that’s worth having in the locker”

This is the rare one that even 50% is probably good going

edit: just went and tried it (though I’m sans 7 string at the moment), may have to revise that estimate down

edit to the edit: I do have an 8 string but it’s 29.2 at the long end and I have…let’s call it a suspicion… that that won’t make the 1-3-5-8 reach any easier

2 Likes
#197

You might like this. Shwesmo “Gnawhat”

Sorry if you already know them.

3 Likes
#198

Sure, younger folks have perhaps greater technical proficiency, but I’ve never heard any live performance that rivals this…

2 Likes
#199

Try to find other ways to play some of those chords. With that particular chord, which I also can’t play like Allan does, i use the index finger of the right hand and stroke the chord with the thumb of the right hand.
I have really small hands, but with good left hand positioning and hanging the guitar very high using some workarounds I managed to play that beautiful piece of music.

Hope this link works so you can see how i play it.

#200

I might give this a try!

I’m an honest 6’ tall (not a Tinder 6’) and I have long arms and legs for my build, but my hands and feet are about average. I’m able to play some pretty terrifying stretches during leads by optimising my position and approach, but with some chords it’s just not possible.

I know for many, Allan’s music is like Everest. They want to play it because it’s there, and the challenge of playing it is the appeal. For me, I find the music to be uniquely beautiful and deeply moving. His music resonates within the very fibers of my being.

Unfortunately the link doesn’t work. I would love to see it.

1 Like
#201

I posted it it on The Unreal Allan Holdsworth FB group in 2018, but only members can watch. I lost the original and i can’t download it from the site anymore.
So i made a vid with my phone from my iPad and posted this on YT.
Here’s the link, unfortunately quality is not so good now.
Let me know if it works.

3 Likes
#202

If you sign up for the group you can watch in in better quality.

#203

Thank you for sharing. Very nicely played!

#204

Thnx man! I played this song back in 1989 already (yes i am old) as piece for my graduation from the music highschool.

Did not play it anymore since then and started trying it again in 2018.
It was more of struggle then back in 89……pffffff!
But i managed to get it under my fingers again. It’s a real bitch, one of his hardest songs to master.

#205

Did you know there is one live version with vid from Allan on YT?
He plays those chords as if they where first position open chords! Wahahaha! What a grandmaster he was!

1 Like