Are the new guitarists better than 80s guitarists?

General Music Discussion
#171

Innovation isn’t just about inventing new techniques. It’s also about taking existing techniques and pushing them past how they’d previously been used.

Eddie Van Halen has been mentioned in this thread as an example of innovation, but nothing he was doing at the time was new, it was just the first time it had been done in a rock context. Two handed tapping? Vittoria Camardese was doing it and had developed it heavily in the 60s. Sweeping? Chet Atkins performed sweep picking live with Jerry Reed in the 70s.

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#172

what about eric gales that guy really shocked me when i first found him…

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#173

“The Seven Deadly Sins” still gives me nightmares. :laughing:

I’m not sure which “generation” Rusty really belongs in, but there were very, very, very few guys in the 80s capable of doing what he was doing.

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#174

It seems like Rusty Cooley started his career relatively late - he’s only like 5 years younger than Malmsteen but he didn’t put out his first solo album until 2003. He was shredding like hell in the 90s though, not sure if he was just stuck due to lack of interest/exposure in the 90s or what - I feel like the internet really brought him to prominence in the early 2000’s and let him actually make some cash with instructional material and lessons beyond just local music shop lessons.

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#175

Are there that many people, regardless of decade, that surpass his speed? There is this thread here that breaks down notes per second

Lots of players that allegedly hit that 16 notes per second like him, only 2 above those speeds that weren’t classified as inaccurate

#176

Not sure who here might remember a NYC band from the 80s called CITIES?

My old guitar teacher at the time Steve Mironvich (Steve Irons) played for them.

He had an incredible picking technique very similar to Rusty Cooley. Very Aggressive.

Cities, 1982, Lamours Rock Capital Of Brooklyn - YouTube

#178

Is there somewhere Willjay noted what MAB song he’s alternate picking faster and more accurate than PG? I don’t think I’ve ever heard him play faster than the 12-14 NPS range on strict alternate picking, just sweeps.

#179

I can’t find the track details anywhere. I don’t doubt it or anything but I have never even heard a clip where Lane hits 18nps. Unless it was in his instructional video or some clinic video and I missed it not realizing what I heard. It is possible my ears just don’t process those speeds and I don’t realize what I hear.

Not sure. Not that he is an authority on who plays at what speed but in his latest video Anton said MAB was slower than the other guys he was analyzing. He mentioned 195 bpm. But on speed kills where he breaks down shred tempos MAB claimed he had the ability to play at 220 which is 14.6 nps

#180

@joebegly found it I think - according to some old forum stuff

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#181

Personally, I have absolutely no clue. All I know is he’s one of the fastest I’ve heard, both picking AND fretting - this was the lesson I was talking about, though I’d be shocked if the video links still work:

http://www.chopsfromhell.com/columns/guest_cooley_7ds1.html

The speed at which he plays the final Wrath lick is stupendous when you consider the fretting hand stretches involved. It’s inhuman.

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#182

This is an interesting point actually.

Rusty Cooley is about the same age as Jason Becker. Guthrie Govan is about the same age as Richie Kotzen.

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#183

The vid clips are on youtube if you just search rusty cooley seven deadly sins and each example comes up

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#184

You knw, you’re right. I always think of Cooley and Govan as “roughly” in the same generation of guitarists as guys like me (who I’m sure is a player everyone has a deep appreciation of the musical importance of my work :laughing:) or guys like Angel Vivaldi or Tosin Abasi or whatnot, but I suppose they’re really not, they just didn’t make a name for themselves until much later in life than Gilbert or, idunno, Andy Timmons did.

So, do we need to separate “generation” from age and instead think about the period where they were musically active? That’s my gut inclination, but… I’m thinking out loud as I type.

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#185

Good thought. The frettinng hand side of this is, well, something else. :rofl:

I’ve tried to play this here and there in the past, hut have made peace with the fact that my hands just don’t move like this.

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#186

This is interesting to me, I’ve never really identified with a generation of players.

I really don’t know what’s appropriate here. Yngwie Malmsteen made his name years before Eric Johnson, but EJ is older by nearly a decade.

Rusty’s stretchy licks are terrifying. Spans beyond what even Holdsworth and Lane would attempt, often using all four digits instead of leaving one free to allow some slack in the hand.

This is the stuff of nightmares.

If it’s any consolation, slow down the video. Rusty isn’t actually managing to play all of the notes at the fast speed, especially on the lower strings low in the neck. Still an absurdity.

Edit: This is absolutely not a dig at Rusty. How the hell is anybody supposed to know if they’re really “doing it” at these speeds without slowing down the audio?

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#187

Watching Rusty Cooley makes me feel like I’m getting tendonitis.

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#188

I think by and large, most guitarists could stretch far further than they think they can if they assume proper hand positioning.

However, many people just won’t have the the range of motion in finger abduction to do some of the things Rusty does. Even when the muscles are flexible, the joints can only go so far.

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#189

The RSI I keep talking about is specifically from trying to play an Outworld lick, hahaha:

It’s just stretch diminished lines around the 10th+ fret, but it wrecked me.

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#190

Okay well, I just listened to the newest Lorna Shore release and uhh how did I forget Adam Dimicco

Pretty sure he has a dart thrower DBX mechanic to play that crazy nonsense aromatic be a minute in on the second video

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#191

On the subject of fretting hand stretching, here’s another video by John Vullo on Holdsworth:

I can manage some of these, but some just aren’t possible for me. I have average sized hands, but I have a very significant length differential between my 3rd and 4th fingers. The GMaj9#11 chord from “Home” is an almost impossible shape for my hand, I have to be much higher in the neck to play that shape.

It’s a little disheartening to know that some of the music which I’ve found to be the most beautiful and inspiring is literally out of my reach, but you just have to make the best with what you have.

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