Artifacts and Picknoise in fast runs (Economy Picking)

Playing Technique
#1

Really dumb question and I am hoping someone might be able to chime in and lend a helping hand so to speak. I have been trying to develop the economy/sweep aspect of my playing lately and have really been kind of annoyed with pick noise/noise when I play. I included a video (yeah I know, my filming environment sucks) of some jamming with a looper. I guess the question here is what would YOU do if you had to suffer with sounding like this. Also, is it possible it might not be that bad and I should just live with it? lol I might just hate that noise more than my inability to pick…

Picks - Dunlop Flow
Guitar = EVH Wolfgang Special Stealth
Amp = Boss Nextone Special
Boss RC1 Boss OD200 (Blues Driver) Boss DD500 Boss RV6

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#2

Can you discribe in more detail what the pick noise is?

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#3

The loop is going to cover some of it, but because your picking is not what I would describe as being on the subtle side, it is still audible. The problem is, and generally speaking is the same problem you have with everything, is that you are putting too much oomph into it all the time. When you do that, it with leave you open to all sorts of noise issues, and choppiness. Because everything is so exaggerated, some of the things other players can get away with with only slight detection, if at all, are much more apparent in your playing. The finesse and muting are what I think you should work on.

Otherwise I think you are an absolutely fantastic guitar player. I have told you that many a time. You get those small things sorted, just imagine what you would be doing.

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#4

First of all, thanks for listening/watching! Oh yeah, it’s umm a kind of… WHAM! SMACK!! THWAP! BIF!! POW!! sort of overtone that’s kind of coloring my picked notes in my opinion. It sounds really… rough to my ears. Economy especially is supposed to sound… economical in my opinion I sound not unlike 15 toasters going off in succession while simultaneously spreading butter on each slice. I know a bit of it is background tension, and a lot of it is that I hit pretty hard. I guess the easy answer is to stfu and not hit so dang hard, eh? lol Lemme know what your thoughts are, dude - all input is welcome, my man.

Hahahaha That is THE nicest way I could think of to put it! lol Well done! Yeah, I hit hard. Too hard - and believe it or not I have actually really been focusing on a lighter touch in regards to picking! Hah!

Hmm, I think I agree. Too much energy. An RPG is not required when a shotgun will do! Finesse and muting and less “pressure” are huge factors. And of course that would make things less prone to error/choke and further assist in minimizing background tension. Who the hell taught me to do that anyways? That guy… (It was me!) :grinning:These are pretty tangible things, I will see if I can’t come up with some clever ways to work on this and circle back in a week or so. Currently taking a break from my regular DSX “even NPS” stuff and really digging into FG’s Speed Picking book again. It’s just filled with cool stuff…

Thanks so much for the kind words, and taking the time to reply guys - much appreciated.

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#5

What sort? If it’s an Ultex one, that could potentially be adding to unwanted noise.

Anyway, very cool playing! The main physical thing that jumps out at me is the occasional descending thing were you’re tracking with the shoulder and end up picking right at the bridge when you get to the low E (first appearing around 0:44). I know you’ve tried lots of different things, but I have to wonder if a more solid wrist anchor, and mostly just picking from the wrist, would solve some issues.

#6

I don’t know what to say, but it sounds good to my ears. However, do keep in mind that you can get the Flow in a few different plastics:

  • Nylon (available very recently)
  • Delrin (but only in a few instances, e.g., Andy James’s 2.0mm, and Misha’s two)
  • Tortex (in many sizes)
  • Ultem (what you presumably are using?)
#7

are you using chatgpt?

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#8

For this, no, because I use Flow picks and keep a close eye on them.

But in general I use ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, xAI, DeepSeek, Llama 4, … blah blah blah. :rofl:

#9

Do you have a notated example of one of the economy phrases you are playing in the clip?

#10

Sure. Here’s a few I played, down at the bottom! lol quick and dirty notation - rhythms are not really accurate… Stolen from the Frank Gambale Speed picking book a lot of it hahaha

I think that the Flows I use are Ultex. Actually I am sure of it now that I look at the package! The Ultex ones last a bit longer. I destroy these things…

Um I don’t know what that is, AI maybe? Ah yes, I looked it up - yep, AI. I don’t use it.

Yeah, I do this. I didn’t know that it was “shoulder tracking” until now, so thanks for letting me know, much appreciated. I have certainly tried like the devil to get more “wristy” and even developed a wrist rotation DBX (not very fast) but the shoulder seems to be the constant for tracking, I will take a swing at trying something else for tracking however I am not too sure how to approach it. I have been working on some wrist stuff, but it’s slow going. Kind of at the point where I think I’d rather just refine what I have, such as it is. But in saying that, I am open to trying anything… EDIT Actually there are a couple of modes of play that I can kind of engage, 1) pronated DSX - this one is wrist BUT it can sound a bit swishy and loose, muting occurs with the thumb and I haven’t yet figured out how to mute very well when ascending - so it just doesn’t really happen lol. 2) Supinated (to me), elbow-driven-but shoulder tracked USX/DSX I can do a couple of USX tricks but that weird shoulder thing happens. I do this because it’s easier to get a musical mute, however it might not sound better…

Scotts Econolicks#1
Scotts Econolicks#1595Ă—841 92.6 KB

#11

Nice playing! Awesome!

The thing is, the rules of alternate picking don’t fit so well with pure economy picking.

The attack of the pick in alternate picking is stronger than in economy picking. So the sound of the pick is stronger or louder than the noise of the strings. That’s why you can see Rusty Cooley do a tremolo or change strings without the help of a palm mute or anything that mutes the noise and still sound great.

Also, Rusty plays very close to the bridge of the guitar when he’s playing fast (alternate picking). You’re also doing this, but for economy picking, which isn’t very efficient, because the string tension is higher and the attack is a little softer, which makes it more “level” with the unwanted noises.

I recommend that you leave the pick a little further away from the bridge, where the strings don’t have as much tension.
It may seem strange at first, but it really works for economy picking. In addition, your hand will be in a position where the palm will naturally be able to mute the strings that are not playing, something similar to what George Bellas does, but with the palm.

As for the sound of the pick on the strings, well, you can look for a reference for the attack on the strings. But the most important thing is to make all the notes sound similar, smooth, consistent.
I’ll leave you with a little “exercise” that you can do, I hope it can be useful:

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#12

First, this DOES sound great, even if it may not sound great in the way you WANT it to.

As far as the Ultex flow picks, I love them too, but anything over 1mm or so I find I start getting too much picking “chirp” from. 1mm and below I’m fine. Even the 1.25mm or whatever that is, those are usable… but the thicker ones chirp like mad. That COULD be part of what you’re hearing.

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#13

Oh man, thanks everyone - lots to think about and work on - I am digging in!

@Joao667 - Dude! Awesome clip, thanks so much for the exercise, the kind words and the advice. I spent a bit of time with Tom Gilroy who advised the same thing for me with pick more away from the bridge. I must have forgotten it over time and gravitated back to old habits!

Yeah, chirp. It’s happening for sure. Is there a material that’s “chirp-free”? lol Hmm maybe I should do a search! EDIT - Dunlop Nylon. Very unchirpy. Messing around right now, and so far, so good!

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#14

That was at @kgk the bullet point format reminds me of chatgpt. I was wondering as that format and various ways of talking are hints at chatgpt use.

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#15

Took a run at it yesterday, made some changes and then practiced again with said changes. Pick hand moved up, more pronated but almost exclusively wrist. Well, trying to. The shoulder seems to want to activate itself. Less pick depth and also less “pressure” when picking. I feel like I could lighten up even more actually so I will try that as well.

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#16

The pick noise is part of the music, don’t get rid of it.

There is a switch at 3:28 to Jason from marty, and you can hear a little more click. A little more attack, snap, very hard to discribe, but its there. I hear its more of a thump?..

There is a switch between Marty n Jason.

Edit:
I think I got it the other wayround, marty is more of a click n jason a thump?
Your attack is musical, why try get rid of it? It’s part of the sound?

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#17

Looks better! Have some thoughts on some of those licks you posted though. Hopefully will have time to post something soon to elaborate more.

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#18

Yah, that’s why I mentioned (above) that there are Flow picks made with nylon! It’s a soft plastic that wears quickly, but a consequence of its softness is a different impact sound that you might like. Also, if you’re OK with Tortex, they make that in a Flow as well.

Even worse, if I am talking to somebody with a chat program like Slack, I constantly use emojis. You’re also right about bullets: I fear that the “attention span” of people has been waining recently, you’re very attentive to pick that up.

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#19

I feel like you’re joking with me mate :stuck_out_tongue:

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#20

Nylon is pretty good, but beyond that thinner picks chip less than thicker. For me, for the gain levels I play at, somewhere around 1-1.5 was the break point for an ultex. Your experience may differ, but they do sell a mixed sizes starter pack, and grabbing one of those to experiment might not hurt.

There are also Tortex Flow picks that IMO were pretty good. No texturing or anything, slightly different bevel, but same shape. Tortex is a lot less chirp-prone too.

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