Attempting to play an Yngwie Malmsteen E Harmonic Minor Lick

Technique Critique
#1

I’m attempting to play an Yngwie Malmsteen E Harmonic Minor lick from the two recommended angles with fast / slow versions.

I’m checking on my right hand picking placement. I get the most momentum from the elbow. Is that ok to use or is it considered a bad habit to avoid? I know it doesn’t look like forward pick slanting, but it seems to work for me. I understand the science of forward pick slanting at least conceptually, but when I go to high velocity picking, my hand assumes that position. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all your help.
Best,
Larry

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#2

I think you can play Yngwie using an elbow motion but bear in mind that you are going to need to rearrange your fingerings, or start on an upstroke. It also won’t be possible to sweep on a downstroke to change strings. All of this stems from the elbow motion being a downstroke escape motion, ie you can only switch strings smoothly after a downstroke, not an upstroke (like Yngwie).

Looking at your video you seem to have a pretty solid motion going. I’m not sure about the hand synchronization, though, but I think this may be a result of trying to play essentialy USX (formerly known as downward pickslanting - not forward :slight_smile: ) lines with a DSX motion.

If you have the possibility to film yourself with a slow motion mode on your phone or camera (high framerate), it would make it easier to tell exactly what’s going on.

The slow versions use a completely different motion, but I’m sure you know that.

Cheers!

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#3

@Johannes nailed it! And nice excuse to use some rudimentary images I made yesterday:

@Larry_Corban: with your elbow motion, downstrokes go above the string plane, while upstrokes are buried between strings [we call this DSX]:

image

Ergo, for efficient string switching, the last note on each string must be a downstroke (unless sweeping to a lower string).

Yngwie, on the other hand, picks with an upstroke escape trajectory (USX):

image

Hence all his fast licks are arranged so that the last note on each string is an upstroke (unless sweeping to a higher string)

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Help me, I just can't do it
#4

Now, I just realized that what you’re playing is essentialy a 3 note per string lick. This means that for the picking hand to line up with the fretting hand you would need to either

A. Sweep the upstroke string changes descending (assuming DSX and starting on a downstroke) or,

B. Using a USX (Yngwie) form, pull off the last note on each string, essentialy only picking two notes per string when descending.

I don’t know my Yngwie well enough (despite being a Swede as well…) to tell whether what you’re playing is an actual Yngwie line or not, but you might be better off trying to play something with an even number of notes per string. For example “Yngwie sixes” or something similar, paying attention to whether you are escaping on an up- or downstroke and adjusting your starting stroke accordingly so your string changes work with the motion.

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#5

There’s also an upside down version of the Yngwie trick to descend a 3nps scale: up-down(escape)-pulloff on each string :slight_smile:

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#6

Adding to @Johannes and @tommo’s excellent analysis, check your fretting hand as well.

For the first six notes of the lick (after the one note tremolo), you use fingers 1-2-3 for the ascending portion at frets 10-12-13. For those same frets on the way back down, you use fingers 1-3-4. Definitely want to iron that portion of the lick out; fretting hand technique has a pretty massive effect on the right hand. I would also recommend holding the tremolo note at the beginning with your index finger, and not the middle.

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#7

Thanks Johannes for taking the time to look closely at this video! Your observation of not being able to sweep to a downstroke is exactly the glitch that I’m running into besides feeling like I’m on the edge of my technique and going hysterical on the instrument. :joy:
The advice of filming myself in a slow motion mode on my phone is excellent! I’ll keep you posted on possible revelations through that process!

Cheers Bro!

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#8

Thanks Tommo for the pictures describing the different angles of the pick trajectory. Now I have a proper visual and angle of motion for the right hand.

#9

When I play/improvise normally, I tend to use the B option. My left hand leads the line and the tendency is take out pick strokes and use pick attack for accents. The issue I found is the time in the line isn’t as crisp and on top of the beat. It tends to sound floaty landing the time behind the beat and dragging the tempo. Drummers and bass players will follow you and your tune will come back in 20+ clicks slower.
The line that I used was something I took off a record. When you descend through the E harmonic minor scale you skip a note every two string so you never land on a root. Wherever you are, you’re set up for all things dimished ex. 2-note per string arpeggios
I will try out the “Yngwie 6’s” and film it in slow motion so I can see where " the fly in the ointment" is.
Yes Sir!

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#10

That’s a great C. option to what Johannes suggested. Thanks.

#11

I’ll adjust the left hand fingering to see how it helps with keeping the hands in synch. Thanks for watching the video.

Cheers!

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#12

I don’t think elbow picking works well for Yngwie-style licks. It seems like there is tension going in there.

What is the tempo of the lick?

#13

Thanks for you opinion. 180 BPM

#14

Can you post a screenshot of the tab to this lick? I’d then post a video of me playing it.

#15

No. I didn’t use TAB to learn this line. I took it off a record by ear. Can you please post your own Technique Critique video?

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#16

A post was split to a new topic: Neurodriven - Paganini 5th Caprice

#17

Well it really depends on the lick! Pure elbow generates a downstroke-escape motion (DSX), so there should be no problem if one can re-arrange the lick to fit this mechanics (starting on an upstroke, changing the fingerings, introducing pulloffs etc.). Interestingly, even the trademark 3-string diminished arpeggio can be re-arranged for DSX by a combination of hammer-ons and upstroke sweeping :slight_smile:

Tension is a topic that comes up often in relation to elbow motion - but thanks to the great playing of @Bill_hall, among others, we now know that elbow and relaxation can totally coexist! Check out this thread:

That would be great! Yeah I agree with @Larry_Corban that it would work best in Technique Critique (if you need advice) or in Show And Tell (if you are comfortable with it and want to give a demonstration).

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#18

Thanks. Now can you remove this video from my thread and put it up in Show and Tell.

#19

That post by was very comprehensive, thank you.

When I first started out shredding I was actually an elbow picker, and when I listen to recordings of mine from the time I was 17 I actually hear more speed than I am capable of nowadays, but I remember very well how much tension it caused in my right elbow. I am glad those days are gone. I would have probably ended up injuring myself.

Elbow picking is observable in players such as Petrucci and Morse, too. It works for them. I’m more of a fan of wrist picking, which is what most of my favorite players do.