Becoming a virtuoso

Playing Technique
#14

What do you mean, that it’s not possible?

I think you are joking but I think it’s worth repeating: “becoming a virtuoso” is basically not a real concrete objective, so the question is ill posed in the first place.

In my opinion the only relevant question is how we can best work towards our musical goals.

Since a lot of people automatically equate “virtuoso=speed” it’s worth reminding ourselves what we know about learning how to play fast:

  1. most people without long-term injuries or disabilities seem to already have “enough speed” in both hands
  2. playing fast is about learning how to channel that already available speed into musical applications. Here we provide plenty advice on that
  3. knowledge of the mechanics involved can greatly speed up the learning for step 2

We have several examples of players that were stuck for decades on slow “stringhoppy” motions, and developed speed in the space of a few days just by experimenting and finding a faster motion.

So I think there’s hope for everyone to find a method to play the cool stuff they want to play, you have to work smart and be very clear about your objectives :slight_smile:

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#15

I took it as a response to this:

Emphasis on the prodigy part. How many of the people we class as virtuosos weren’t already (at least) monster technicians fairly young? Conversely, can anyone name a well known player that most consider a virtuoso who wasn’t already pretty amazing at a young age?

To that last point, I wish I remembered more details but I read a really interesting bio (a whole book, not some web blog) about John Coltrane that hinted he developed a little late compared to most (and BOY did he develop…he’s one of the most astonishing musicians ever).

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#16

I always compare physical movements to language. If you’re not a native speaker, there is always going to be a barrier to fluidity.

It’s the same with guitar I feel… There is a certain grip you get from learning stuff Young.
Tho I don’t think it’s impossible, but the rewards from putting extreme effort as an adult into guitar are almost… nonexistent.
I, dispite loving guitar, find it incredibly hard to put in serious effort when it’s kind of for nothing…

#17

I know what you mean. It seems like a lot of effort. I’m hell bent on playing stuff that used to give me a fit when I was younger. I now realize the reason I couldn’t play that stuff was not because I didn’t have the technical ability, it’s 100% because I didn’t understand the mechanics I needed.

I feel like I owe it to my younger self, who spent quite literally 100’s of hours toiling away, to revisit those challenging pieces/sections. Is it for nothing? Sort of. I know for a fact I’ll never play live again. It’s just for “me”. It’s a hobby :slight_smile: People have all sorts of hobbies that could be thought of as amounting to “nothing”. I know a guy who collects toy trains. He doesn’t build displays and have the neighborhood over to play around with his stuff or anything. It’s just for him. He enjoys it, just like I enjoy trying to play the fast run in Dream Theatre’s “Another Day” solo :slight_smile:

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#18

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: “Another Day” solo

#19

I’m not sure I understand what you mean when you say it’s for nothing?
Do you mean nothing career wise?

#20

I think the biggest barrier you face starting late is free time. If you aren’t in full time education then you’ll likely be working full time.
That’s no reason to not start trying to improve at any age though. It’s not as if you can’t make any improvements just because you didn’t start young.

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#21

As you can guess from my nickname, i’m mostly into jazz :smile:

I think there is something special to me in these uptempo bebop solos. They’re just so exiting and intense, there’s so much adrenaline, and i still can’t play in that fashion! Of course there’s a lot more to music, than just that, but man, it’s an important part!

This definition i think is very close to describing “virtuoso”. In my opinion there’s another important part - being able to take some new material you’ve never played before and learn it without too much time and effort spent. Something you discussed with Martin Miller, like there’s this fundamental motion, that he uses, that can be aplied to a lot of different music. BTW, as i got your attention, @Troy , thank you for all the things you’ve done and continue doing :slightly_smiling_face:

I’m still just a music student, not really a professional, but the thing i hear again and again from different jazz guitar players is that you don’t really need to be a great soloist to get gigs. So basically guitar is more of an accompany instrument(at least in music, that i wanna play). Is it worth it putting a lot of effort into technique? Careerwise i think no. But to me there’s just no point in it without some mindblowing solo.

#22

I think, these answers are more like a “Yes” :grin:

Anyway, i hope you all find this topic interesting. Just trying to find some motivation and maybe some more proofs, that great technique isn’t only for younger folks :grinning:

#23

Career is one, and just in general, no one cares much if you can play guitar. The effort to really get good is very high for someone coming at this late

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#24

Fair enough. I just do it to please myself really. The days of being on stage are long gone for me :joy:

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#25

Troy

Post must be at least 20 characters.

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#26

HAHAHAHAHAHA! You know, it’s always the things right in front of your nose that you miss.

100%, you are correct! How could I have been that stupid to not of think of Troy???

#27

Are David Gilmour, Stevie Ray Vaughn, or Mark Knopfler virtuosos?

#28

People could probably argue about that all day lol!

I will say this, I tried playing the intro solo to Texas Flood, attempting to nail every nuance and that killer vibrato. My hands have never been that sore before. And I was using a ‘reasonable’ string gauge, not the crazy 12’s or 13’s I’ve heard SRV used. His stuff is extremely technically challenging to play. It takes a different type of skill than a John Petrucci solo.

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#29

People literally do argue this stuff all day long in pretty much all guitar forums and groups! I tend to stay out of it :joy:

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#30

Define nothing. Anything has the value you attribute to it. If your talking widespread fame and fortune, than yeah, that may be a stretch. Everything else is really up to you.

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#31

You know, it’s funny. I’d been a Satch fan for YEARS before I finally saw him live, at the second G3 tour, and you know what floored me the most that night?

His vibrato.

It’s some of that little stuff that really can make music breath in ways that aren’t necessarily as obvious to you.

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#32

For sure, Satch has excellent vibrato. He’s also extremely melodic, one of my favs.

I don’t know why, but since I always viewed guys that pick everything as “morally superior” (huge lol/sarcasm there…I heard Paul Gilbert tongue-in-cheek say that with mockery in an interview) I never really got into learning many Satch tunes. He’s actually got a pretty cool picking mechanic. Check out this “tremolo” strumming.

He could do some serious damage if he tried applying that to single note stuff. It’s looks really fast, but relaxed too. Not saying he needs to or anything. He clearly took the legato thing and ran with it and that’s his “sound”. It just always interested me how him and Vai have some similarities but Vai explored the picking to a greater degree.

And just in case anyone reading this mistook my smart-assery, I do not think guitarists who choose to not pick all their notes are morally inferior lol! As a 16 year old kid, the machine gun like alt picking of Di Meola and Petrucci was was caught my ear and made me want to practice. That’s all :slight_smile:

Satriani, Kotzen, Holdsworth, Garsed…all freaking incredible. If I could legato like them, I wouldn’t worry about picking much either :slight_smile:

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#33

Well learning a language for example is far more impressive to people and a skill that can acually get you a job.
Sure, we all have our reasons for practicing guitar and get something out of it, but if we were getting paid, or if it was a more viable life skill, then I’m sure we’d all put a lot more work in.