Botulism and Hopelessness

Off-Topic
#1

So, long story short. After close to five years of chronic pain, complete atrophy of various muscles and dramatic weakening of my body as a whole I finally got a diagnosis last week!

I have adult intestinal toxaemia botulism. It’s basically a bacteria that attacks muscle and kills nerve function.

The average marker is 102. I registered at 488 (whatever the quantifier is, million, billion I don’t know). As a result my body is producing off the chart levels of lactic acid so I am always operating similar to someone at peak physical exertion.

I’m on medications to attempt to kill the bacteria but was warned it is a nasty process and I’d likely be in for a hell of a few weeks.

After so many years of chronic pain I thought I’d gladly take that. But I didn’t realize the pain would be WORSE as the bacteria is killed off.

Turning a dream theatre song to Metallica length, my arms are basically constantly numb, I have no coordination and can’t even get any proper vibrato. My alternate picking is down to 160bpm feeling like max speed tremolo.

I’m waiting to hear back from my doctor is this is normal and if I should push through or rest, but I’m wondering if anyone in this group has faced similar hardships in the way of injury or illness and if you’ve pushed through or rested and let the body relax?

I’m at a loss for if trying to play is even beneficial at this point. I’ve had chronic pain for years and always pushed through, but this feels like I’m up against an insurmountable foe.

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#2

I would listen to your doctor, since there’s really no one here who can help you more. In my non-expert opinion guitar can wait, as it’s never a good idea to push through pain, chronic condition or not.

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#3

I got severe tendonitis 14 years ago, it is nothing compared to your situation, but i could not even play a simple chord without a lot of pain. I had to stop for a year, and then slowly start from scratch. The reason i share this here is that i got my skills back, and more. It. took years, but it was possible for me, and Maybe it is for you too.
Maybe you can take a pause with the guitar as long as you are in pain and learn other musical skills to keep your mind busy?
I hope it Will pass soon for you.

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#4

I hope you get better, and soon!

That’s usually from neurotoxin in a bad/old can or something, where the bacteria makes the toxin and it builds up in the damaged product – then when that gets ingested, it’s bad news, as everyone knows, because of the actual toxin in the can. The toxin is denatured by heat, by the way, so cooking food is a good option!

But you have the actual bacteria in your intestine? I think that’s rare, at least for adults. I am not a professional, although I have a bit of education on the subject.

An antitoxin does exist, by the way, for what that’s worth, but I don’t know how that works into treatment or anything.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3310098/

For those who don’t know, “Botox” literally IS that exact toxin (“BOtulism TOXin”). No joke, and I am not exaggerating.

#5

I have a friend who gets Botox treatment for migraines, and says it’s been the only source of long-term relief.

@MikeHendrycks , I’d never let the advice of internet randos take precedence over advice from my Doctor. If you have doubts about what your Doctor tells you, get an opinion from another Doctor.

#6

And I don’t have a link handy, but Saturday Night Live made fun of cosmetic use of Botox in a sketch years ago. It was framed as a TV commercial, with the pitch line “A younger-looking you is just a needle full of poison to the face away.”

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#7

Yes my doctor and I were able to likely trace it back to when I went vegan three years ago. I was eating can after can of lentils and chickpeas and I bought some from a cheap convenience store where the cans were all dented for like 5 cents a can. Apparently dented cans are a sign of the toxin activity, not someone dropping them. I ate god knows how many gross tasting legumes assuming that’s just what they were supposed to taste like. I also consume all of my vegetables raw and unwashed. The most I’ll do is wipe an apple on my shirtsleeve.

I always thought washing produce was for paranoid germaphobes… figured injesting germs would make my immune system stronger.

Turns out I was very, very wrong.

And yes, adult intestinal toxaemia botulism is extremely rare, it’s usually an acute reaction that also affects the face and lungs (and is fatal) Luckily for me mine was all in my neck and upper body and I’m an avid gym goer so the diagnosis was I must have done something at the gym. MRI came up clean, X-RAY clean, nerve conduction test had significant weakness with no notable cause I had an ultrasound for cancer (i later found out) as I had such dramatic weight and muscle loss. On and on down the line with physio, chiro, massage, acupuncture. Hell, I even got my personal training certification because I assumed I just didn’t know how to exercise since I’m always hurting myself.

Turns out I actually wasn’t doing anything wrong and I hadn’t hurt myself. Just had poison in my gut.

All that to say, I’m still trying to play everyday but I’m also doing a lot more work on music theory, ear training and rhythm training.

Thanks to all of you who reached out. It’s been a really high anxiety time and my guitar has always been my lifeline. I often said growing up without my guitar I wouldn’t be here. It’s made me really reevaluate and kind of realize that’s not actually very healthy and not playing guitar, while not ideal… shouldn’t have me at such a low quality of life. Guitar players way better then me talk about going for extended periods without playing. I literally haven’t missed more then two consecutive days in over five years, productive or not.

I don’t know, I’m a basket case but I’m happy to be here in this community lol.

2 Likes
#8

If I may ask, have you had any root canal procedures done?

#9

Hey Nitro!

I had all four of my wisdom teeth removed and one of them was infected but never a root canal.

#10

Thanks for replying Mike, you might want to check out the documentary Root Cause. Root canals and wisdom teeth removal can cause undetected infections. The pulling of wisdom teeth can cause cavities in combination with leftover tooth ligament and one of the bacteria this condition is associated with is botulism.

If you are able to make a 3D scan of your wisdom teeth locations to rule out toxicity from cavities.

My 2cts, I wish you the best

#11

I had intestinal dysbiosis a couple of years ago. Not botulism, but I had lots and lots of bad bacteria and almost no good. While taking kill supplements, I was pretty miserable, with all the toxins being released into my body at once.

What worked for me was taking an apple pectin supplement. I used Now Foods, 700mg, 4 capsules at a time. A couple of times a day, or whenever I felt like I needed it (usually half an hour to an hour after taking the kill supplements). The fiber (pectin) absorbs toxins and helps pass them from your body. It really was a huge help.

Hang in there. It gets better. Good luck.

#12

Hey there, I hope the treatment goes by quickly, and the possibility of a life with less pain makes the temporarily increased pain more tolerable.

I haven’t specifically had an illness sideline me, but definitely injuries and life events. I’ve had multiple finger injuries (tendons, lumbricals, pulleys, ligaments… all connective tissue types) and other larger joints (so much “golfer’s elbow”, shoulder issues, etc) that I’ve definitely learned my lesson to not push through them, at least not when they’re getting worse. Not only that, being in the military had many last minute schedules and moves that playing guitar wasn’t in the picture (up to a year at a time). I used to be concerned, but much less nowadays. As long as you put in the time once you’re healed up and ready to go, I think you’ll be surprised by how quickly you get back to where you were (or better).

#13

Sorry to hear about what your going through. I’ve been going through some pain as well. My thumbs constantly hurt. My thumb I hold my pick with constantly hits now and my thumb I use to pivot on the back of the neck hurts as well. I’m 38 so I wonder if maybe it’s the start to something or maybe I just need to take a break on the guitar