Building blocks for Bebop Licks/ jazzy lines

Harmony & Theory
#21

I already had the gut feeling that Bebop improvisation is a whole other “animal” than let´s say shred guitar, where you basically have your scale fragments that you play up and down.

On the tip of listening a lot: my problem is that my ears can´t catch up with fast Bebop playing. I dare say I have a relatively good sense of hearing when it comes to Rock and Pop music. It all goes to shreds when I try to listen to e.g. John Coltrane. Especially when it´s only lead instrument, bass and drums (meaning without any harmony instrument like a piano that accompanies). Do you have any advice as to how to learn to hear fast lines?
As I write this, one idea that comes to my mind is this: instead of hearing things “relatively”, I might have to practice hearing licks “absolutely”, not “on the background” of a certain chord.

By the way, great suggestions!

#22

Think of it this way:

“Transcribing” is for sitting down and trying to dicipher exact notes and rhythms by ear.

“Listening” means lying down on the couch and absorbing the “big picture”: the groove, the timbre, the way the musicians are interacting, what changes as the song progresses from start to middle to end.

There are too many things about bebop, and jazz as a whole, that are complicated or heady when you try to turn them into a set of rules or directions, but can become more ingrained and natural through repeated listening. For example: where phrases start and end relative to the bar line. One could write up a list of dos and don’ts on this topic but it’s be hard for the student to assess if they’re on the right track without having the reference in their memory of what the music generally sounds like.

Point is that the “listening” I recommend is different than trying to pick out very tangible specifics. It’s a bit like how a kid learns how to sing back their first song/nursery rhyme …they don’t get it quite right for a while, but it’s just repeated listening, as they can’t like, read the sheet music when they’re 2.

The other thing, transcribing, also essential. That’s where you sit down and try to get the specifics of a small piece of material. If things are too fast, pick something slower. Slow down software is useful but good to not get overly dependent. Working with a program like soundslice, transcribe, or any software where you can view the waveform is a huge time saver because you can isolate the part you are trying to figure out and listen in small sections rather than constantly rewinding an audio track.

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#23

Thank you for the suggestions.

I guess my approach to these things is “wrong” in the sense that it´s not about “getting” every note. I do tend to have a “heady” approach to things, just like you described here.
Though I am curious whether Jazz virtuosos can actually grasp licks by ear and by hearing them once of only a couple of times.

Is there a software that is called “transcribe”?

#24

Yes, there is music software called transcribe.
Music software Transcribe – Transcribe

As for jazz soloing, one approach is to follow the early greats: play the head, play around with the head (-a lot of classic solos came about this way) and move out a bit from there.
Charlie Christian’s “Rose Room” solo (recorded in1939) still sounds fantastic. (It starts around 1:10)
Charlie Christian, “Rose Room”

Much bebop soloing is more about chord changes than the melody. It’s hard to START there. Work up to it. (And if that’s not where you want to wind up, you don’t have to.)

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#25

@Dairwolf Apologies if I was unclear, you may have misunderstood.

I was trying to explain that “listening” and “transcribing” are two different processes, but both important.

“getting every note” is part of “transcribing”

My post was only saying that it’s easier to apply detailed analysis to the transcription part of the process rather than the listening. The analysis is definitely important - there are many cerebral components that are important to learn about, analyze, do exercises with, etc.

I was only saying that “listening” is a separate activity.

All of these things are important, imo, each activity just serves a different function

Though I am curious whether Jazz virtuosos can actually grasp licks by ear and by hearing them once of only a couple of times.

The simple answer might be “yes” but it depends on the length, speed, complexity of the lick, and which musician.

For example, figuring out a 7 note phrase of 8th notes at 180 bpm from someone like Oscar Peterson is easier to grab from one or two listens than a phrase of 8th notes that’s 3 measures long at 300 bpm from someone like Michael Brecker or Chick Corea.

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#26

Ok, I think I get what you mean. A couple of weeks ago I sat down and started analyzing the licks of “Giant Steps”. I wrote down the intervall structure of the licks in relation to the chords and that already gave me some insights. When I actually listen to the recording, I can´t wrap my head around the licks at all. It just eludes my inner ear(s). Long way to go!

#27

This is another push on the utility of a teacher to help with pacing; Giant Steps is a very different kind of tune and arguably a lot more complex (than say, Satin Doll or Autumn Leaves) so even if you make good progress w an analysis of Coltrane’s playing there, it might not be very useful as an introduction to jazz vocabulary.

Also in this thread I think we should be careful about the term bebop vs jazz, bebop as a subgenre with more specific components. Coltrane’s language from the Giant Steps period has a heavy bebop influence but is not bebop. I’m of the school that believes learning at least a little bit of bebop is helpful for understanding the other styles that came after, but some disagree and that can work out fine.

Of all the sub genres of jazz I think of bebop as being the most formulaic (but maybe it’s just the most studied/analyzed/taught) so in a sense that makes it a more tangible starting point for study.

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