I can make a Reverse Dart motion in the air quite easily but I’m totally useless at doing Dart Thrower in any speedy way that looks remotely realistic, I think if I could see someone do it, it might give me a better understanding of how to do it e.g. how vertical vs how diagonal the motion is, if the motion operates in either the more flexed or more extended portion of the wrist’s range of motion etc. Anyone up for it? 
I can’t do it. I haven’t tried much either. All I know is I’ve heard the Dr Troy interviewed mention it’s use in things like hammering, and in the RDT thread Troy and Tom both mentioned it was like an overhand grip drum motion.
If I had to guess, on the clockface I’d imagine that’s somewhere around 11 o’clock at the top and 5 o’clock at the bottom. I’m also putting that as vertical as possible (without being totally vertical) just knowing what we know now about how the max efficiency RDT motion works.
Like a broken clock, I am only correct 2x daily so take what you will from my above guess 
I’ve been experimenting with it and having some success with high speed tremolos although I can’t tell you the exact BPM right now coz I’m just flooring it without using a metronome.
Joe is correct - the motion is very close to completely vertical, almost like the table tap test 11-5 or even 11:30-5:30 on the clock face. For me it takes place mostly in the extension range of the movement - the movement is USX and the wrist is neutral when the pick is trapped.
I’m not currently able to record a video for you because my camera is terrible but I’ll try to set something up for it over the next couple of days. I’m finding the motion incredibly useful because it lets me do hybrid picking stuff as well. One thing I’ve noticed is that if you want to use a leading edge style you need a degree of thumb flexion, but it works just fine. Trailing edge also works as well but I’m not as comfortable with that.
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Wish I could help you here but when i try to move fast it is always spastic turning, none of the side to side or up and down stuff.
you could always try the tried and true swing trick and do this as fast as you can (same fretted note, same string) for awhile then burst into triplets to get the feel of how the hand will feel with little to no tension. if you think you are doing the proper motion anyways. this might help clear up your mind and help you see the bigger picture of a proper motion.
the way my brain sees the motion is you either turn the pick out on the upstroke or you pull the pick out on the upstroke. i believe dart thrower is the pulling the pick out motion (non elbow). you should rest the pick on the string before you pull the pick out for the upstroke strike so you can clearly feel it in your hand.
i can do spastic tapping and turning, not with side to side that feels wonky and won’t move as effortlessly (basically when i try it reverts to turning either in flexion or extension form).
maybe it is like trying to tap a surface with the right outside portion of the top joint on the index finger if you are gripping the pick with thumb and index (and are picking right handed). not really sure, hope you figure it out. 
This is really helpful and reflects what does and doesn’t work when I try to do it, way less diagonal then I would of thought, especially compared to RDT
This seems to match up with how John Taylor’s motion looks which is DT, would definitely be interested in a video if you get around to it!
Yep, I think you’re right. This whole setup feels completely unnatural to me, it’s like an incredibly rapid flicking upwards that I would never think to apply to the guitar
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well now hold on this is why i also add this at the end. because you also have an opposing direction to go as well so you will be either dropping the pick through the string or pushing it through. obviously pushing to get through a string with tension put on it.
maybe it is like trying to tap a surface with the right outside portion of the top joint on the index finger if you are gripping the pick with thumb and index (and are picking right handed).
and yes i think you are right it feels unnatural to me as well.
see if you switch to turning if it might help clear things up it did with my picking.
the most obvious to me is there is absolutely no way i can do a side to side motion no matter what angle with the same ease as if i tap or turn. the moment i think i feel it i am basically turning to rev up the motion, and it is kind of just me using the turn as the activated mechanic. in order to clearly see the turn you have to make the motion in a flexion and extension wrist form first so the body understands what it is doing. then try to do your dart thrower motion, and see if you can minimize the turn. it is possible, but what happens is the elbow does move some, and it is pretty much impossible to not have elbow motion, or maybe its the whole arm wiggling. hard to say really i dont do straight line picking.
this is where troy would have to chime in as i know he can do it with a flexion and extension form. i imagine most players who are naturally straight line can alter the wrist from extension to flexion and do the same motion, well theoretically they should be able to anyways.
I’m trying to record a short video for you, but my fiancé Lorraine is vacuuming and there’s too much ambient noise. I’ll try again later today.
EDIT: Here it is. Apologies for the poor sound quality.
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In an unapologetic and narcissistic act of self-importance, I’ll quote myself.
at 1:05 in the video Tom says → “The dart thrower path is kind of like11 to 5”
You got one of my lucky guesses @Jacklr
Great video @Tom_Gilroy! I’d love to see a Troy-ified version on the platform (as if he needs more things to work on…)
I think the reason that anytime I’ve actually tried doing this and had issues, is that my “old form” (pre Troy) was a trailing edge DSX, slightly pronated. The pronation happened organically to mute the bass strings on high gain amps, but I think any time I get into that posture my hands want to just do what they did all those years without even thinking about it - DSX.
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for me as you try to show the motion for gypsy i don’t do a dirt bike style handle throttle, the motion is just completely turn. if i was to do that it adds in that extension flexion move and just feels counterintuitive as well as a speed bump.
I can’t really do the wrist-forearm movement on a guitar with the floating gypsy flexed wrist form very comfortably, but I can do the wrist-forearm movement from the Yngwie-ish setup. It’s a little bizarre, but I can do the “gypsy” movement pretty well on an oud with a risha.
This is what I notice as well (time stamped the explanation) if I try to do that more straight line path with any clock face directions in order to do it more with zero tension is that it does have some elbow or arm wiggle. It feels like it is this way for myself so I can get the motion revved up. Probably why alot of players just go ahead and use tension to control the movement for stability. But the problem here is my body quickly tries to revert to what it knows best to turn as the fuel to the spastic tension free motion.
Thank you Tom, really comprehensive, the overhand drum grip is a great analogy here!
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Glad to help! Twenty characters.
What I notice is that my hand moves in more of a 1 to 7 motion - the reverse of 11 to 5. Is one of these dart thrower and the other reverse dart thrower? If so, which is which? Or perhaps my movement is neither?
This is “tall mouse” reverse dart. The theoretically fastest of those motions. Take a look at the new intro to the reverse dart section — we’ve got lots of good “air” demonstrations and closeups:
Here’s the actual lesson:
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